Ramsay Snow (or Bolton if you prefer...) - Beware Spoilers

[severence25]

Hi all,
Just got around to finishing ADWD and now feel I can return to the threads without risking reading any spoilers!

I think I can quite categorically say that in my opinion Ramsay Snow is quite possibly the nastiest bad guy I can ever remember featuring in any story I've ever read. This guy is an absolute animal, and his chapters with Reek are some of my favourites. I never particularly liked Reek in his previous life (I wont spoil who he was for anyone who's not read it) and waiting to find out what Ramsey was going to do with him next was quite entertaining.

Maybe the fact I like the bad guy says something about me, but then again who ever preferred Luke over Darth V!?

Just felt the need to share that with the world!

 

[Ursa major]

Re: Ramsay Snow (or Bolton if you prefer...)

Welcome back from "real life", severence.

As you yourself have mentioned spoilers, it may be a good idea to put the word, Spoilers, in the thread title. (Go Advanced from the Edit screen is your friend in this regard.)


And yes, Ramsay is a particularly nasty piece of work. I don't doubt that people around the world are waiting to read about his (suitably horrible) demise in the next book, or the one after that. Whether GRRM will oblige, only time will tell.

 

[The Imp]

Re: Ramsay Snow (or Bolton if you prefer...)

Ramsay is indeed a great character. He makes charcters such as Gregor Clegane and Joffrey seem like Sunday school teachers. He even makes his own father seem tame in comparison. I hate him, but I think that GRM did an amazing job with him.

BTW, I think that it's quaranteed that he dies in TWOW.

 

[Mesanna]

GRRM gets the "badness level" just right with Ramsay Bolton. Some authors go too far with their bad guys, and the characters become more like cartoon baddies and just aren't believable. Ramsay is frighteningly believable!

I wonder if it's the nature/nurture thing that makes him the way he is, and I think he loses on both counts actually. On the nature side, his father is something of a cold monster (what was that line, something about "don't make me regret the day I raped your mother"). What kind of father says that to his son? And on the nurture side, he's grown up being a ******* and always second best. (He's like that old joke "The most even balanced guy in the world - he's got a chip on both shoulders).

I mostly blame Roose Bolton for the son he created. What kind of man can calmly state that he's "rather fond of his fat little wife" and discuss how she's looking forward to having his children, then go on to say "but of course Ramsey will kill them" (or words to that effect) without really batting an eyelid?

They are psychopaths! (But great to read )

 

[severence25]

Thank you for editing my title Ursa! I should of thought of that. Oops! Sorry if I spoiled anyone’s day.

Mesanna - I totally agree that he is believable. Unlike a lot of bad guys in fantasy books he has no magic powers. Therefore all of his actions are within the realms of possibility and I have no doubt that throughout human history these types of psychotic mad men have really existed. No doubt if he was to sit down with Freud his parent(s) would be to blame! Can't imagine Roose taking his son down the park for a father and son kick around...

Imp/Ursa - I've given up trying to predict which characters are going to die. Martin has absolutely no loyalty to anybody, everybody is fair game. How many other authors regularly kill main character after main character although to be fair he does have a lot to go at. I still can remember the shock when Ned had his head removed from his shoulders. After having read so many books where the main person is in a dire and perilous situation that is virtually guaranteed to kill them, only for crisis to be averted at the very last minute Martins approach is quite novel. This is probably why I like his books

 

[Wiggum]

Ramsay grosses me out, but it's Roose that would have me watching my back.

It's like comparing Jeffery Dahlmer to Lord Vader.

 

[The Imp]

Ramsay grosses me out, but it's Roose that would have me watching my back.

It's like comparing Jeffery Dahmer to Lord Vader.

You make a good point. Ramsay has the worst of his father and none of what his father more than a just a sadistic monster, which is intelligence, insight, and great political savviness.

The comparison that I'd make is it would be like comparing Gregor Clegane to Tywin Lannister.

 

[Wiggum]

There's a lot of Tywin is Roose.

But Tywin never gave me chills.

Tywin had an iron fist, a clear vision, and the means to get it done.

He was linear in his making of power, Roose is not.

Tywin suffered Gregor for his strength and ruthlessness, but not for his sadism.

Gregor raped and killed without mercy, but he did it quickly.

Roose suffers Ramsay even with his proclivities towards sadism, and the inordinate amount of time it takes to break, and even turn a person.

That he's been able to do that, keep Ramsay alive and somewhat cloaked, is amazing.

When Arya saw Roose for the first time at Harrenhall (sp), it gave me a lurch in my stomach.

Only character in the series that did that.

 

[The Imp]

There's a lot of Tywin is Roose.

But Tywin never gave me chills.

Tywin had an iron fist, a clear vision, and the means to get it done.

He was linear in his making of power, Roose is not.

Tywin suffered Gregor for his strength and ruthlessness, but not for his sadism.

Gregor raped and killed without mercy, but he did it quickly.

Roose suffers Ramsay even with his proclivities towards sadism, and the inordinate amount of time it takes to break, and even turn a person.

That he's been able to do that, keep Ramsay alive and somewhat cloaked, is amazing.

When Arya saw Roose for the first time at Harrenhall (sp), it gave me a lurch in my stomach.

Only character in the series that did that.

All good points. Roose Bolton is an absolutely chilling individual.

 

[vanslyke]

Yea it kind of took me by surprise that I found a character in this series more sadistically attracted to cruel violence than Joff. You could argue that the two Bolton's together make up the greatest threat right now to the Starks and peace as a whole throughout the 7 Kingdoms.

 

[Wiggum]

Does Roose ever display excessive violence directly though?

He may, and I may not remember it.

Vargo was one of the most loathsome creatures ever put forth by Martin, and he was ready to spit shine Roose's gauntlets without a word of complaint.

 

[The Imp]

Does Rose ever display excessive violence directly though?

He may, and I may not remember it.

Vargo was one of the most loathsome creatures ever put forth by Martin, and he was ready to spit shine Roose's gauntlets without a word of complaint.

The fascinating thing about Roose is he never has to raise his voice. The character that comes to mind when I think of him is Don Vito Corleone.

It just occurred to me that I don't think it was accidental that Arya learned Roose so well, while she remained fairly unremarkable. i think the day will come when Arya will put that knowledge to good use. Just a random thought.

 

[TK-421]

Something tells me Roose and Littlefinger are good friends.

 

[Ursa major]

Roose may think that Littlefinger is an ally, but I don't believe it's true. For instance, I doubt Roose has any idea that Littlefinger hopes to claim the North through Sansa.


Littlefinger, being the devious creature he is, has possibly set Roose up, helping to provide the false "Arya" and the (shaky) plan to use her to help Ramsay win the North. Even if this had seemed to work, all Ramsay would have had is his false claim (false, because Sansa's claim can trump even the true Arya's) and the hatred of just about every other powerful house in the North.

In effect, Roose and Ramsay are plowing the furrow from which Sansa's power - and thus Littlefinger's (he hopes) - will arise.

 

[Boaz]

I was just perusing the Jon Snow thread.

Jon Snow -- Beware of Spoilers

And there were many different theories over the years as to John’s father. In addition to the two leading candidates, Eddard and Rhaegar , there’s Rickaed, Brandon, Benjen, Robert, Aerys and probably even more obscure characters. But it was Brandon Stark that caught my attention. and I started wondering did Brandon have any bastards?

I figured that any of Brandon’s bastards would be in the age range of 16 to 26 when the story begins. He traveled all over the north. He had a number of friends from the Neck and the Vale. I think a Mallister and Elbert Arryn, Jon Arryn’s heir, both died with Brandon in King’s Landing.

I am mentioning it here because obviously, my first thought was of Ramsay Snow. Now wouldn’t that be wild? Ramsey Bolton inherits Winterfell through his fake ******* father, and not through his biological *******. Father has Brandon’s eldest son.

Other characters that come quickly to mind are Hodor, Pyp, Grenn, Chett, Rast, Satin, and Aegon Frey.