ASoIaF weakness(es)?

[Skaffen-Amtiskaw]

Brienne's story in AFfC was pretty aimless, she just wandered around the countryside on a quest every reader knew was futile, doing nothing of note until the end. Her chapters were pretty much the only storyline I've wanted to skip past, though of course I didn't.

Plus I was really really angry when Maester Aemon died. There was only one thing I wanted more than for Dany to meet Aemon, and that was for us to get a Tywin Lannister POV...

I suppose it's the mark of a good author that I'm genuinely angry at being denied these things as a reader.

[genisis2]

Quoting The Last Knight by Norman F. Cantor (history of Jon of Gaunt)
"probably from the age of 5, Gaunt was trained to ride ... blah, blah,blah...By age 10 Gaunt was well-instructed in the essentials of knightly warfare both on horseback and in hand-to-hand fighting,and by age 14 he would be knighted as the Earl of Richmond.
But at age 10 Gaunt was deemed ready to experience warfare personally. While he was crossing the English channel to camp of Edward the Black prince, the small fleet his ship was intercepted by a spanish squadron and he found himself in the midst of hand-to-hand fighting between English and Spanish crews.
He was participating in battles by age 13 and at age 15 was fighting alongside his father, Edward III, on the Scottish frontier."
I cant find it but I am pretty sure one of the chapters states that by age 7 he was considered an adult.
So GRRM is knowledgable and has historical fact backing him up when he is writing about the Stark children. It seems that GRRM is using a template of the Great Families in 14th century Europe. So I'm responding to Yossarian and Direghost's comments like this one. "I agree that the children are too young. The Stark storyline would be more plausible if Jon,Robb,Arya, and Bran were each two years older."
They seem too young but in fact are not.

[direghost]

Well, on the other hand, Martin has said he wished he had made the children older in the beginning as well. The intended 5-year gap was meant to solve much of that problem, but now that he's dropped the idea it is still a problem.

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by direghost

Well, on the other hand, Martin has said he wished he had made the children older in the beginning as well. The intended 5-year gap was meant to solve much of that problem, but now that he's dropped the idea it is still a problem.

I'm sorry, why is this a problem?

I imagine in the world were the action is taking place is somewhat parallel to medieval times, where life expectancy was quite low, probably about 1/3 of today and children grew up quickly, married early and died early. I think the loss of innocence is an important factor when dealing with the Stark children.

[Dolorous Edd]

Totaly agree with TK. Ages of the stark kid's are fine IMO.

[Niolani]

The only critism I have is how many freakin' times they use the expression "sweet sister". Oh, and "You know nothing Jon Snow" drove me nuts too.

[direghost]

Originally Posted by TK-421

I'm sorry, why is this a problem?

I imagine in the world were the action is taking place is somewhat parallel to medieval times, where life expectancy was quite low, probably about 1/3 of today and children grew up quickly, married early and died early. I think the loss of innocence is an important factor when dealing with the Stark children.

Well not to beat a dead horse, and it appears I'm in a minority, but in point of fact the low life expectancy of medieval and ancient times was due to a far higher infant mortality rate. There are very very few examples of 12 or 14 year olds in history achieving great deeds, and many people live well into their 80's. Martin is writing fantasy, of course, so none of this affects him ultimately but it's something to keep in mind. I don't mind Rob's age so much, but Bran is a bit too young and there's no way Rickon will age to be of an age of any import at all.

[YOSSARIAN]

I agree with you, direghost. Sansa's age is not a problem because betrothal and marriage were likely possibilities at her age. Robb's age is not too much of a problem because his bannermen were really honoring his father rather than raising up a sixteen year old king. And he's dead now anyway. We don't know what's to come for Rickon. But I don't think Jon, Arya, or Bran are old enough to have done the things they've done (or we expect will do).

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by direghost

There are very very few examples of 12 or 14 year olds in history achieving great deeds

Yes, but there are some. Wasn't Joan of Arc around twelve years old when she started influencing history? Anne Boleyn was fourteen, I believe, when she married Henry VIII and encouraged him to turn away from the Catholic Church. King Tut - only lived till he was 18. I'm not going to go into all the kids who participate in the Olympics and beat world records all the time.

Teens are totally capable of achieving great things. Many of us don't think it's possible because in the modern day and age, they aren't encouraged to do great deeds, as they're not considered to be adults.

And Bran, well- he really hasn't done much, besides escape. It's not like he's leading forces into battle at the age of eight.

[the smiling weirwood]

Originally Posted by YOSSARIAN

But I don't think Jon, Arya, or Bran are old enough to have done the things they've done (or we expect will do).

What do you expect them to do? Conquer Westeros? Become whores? Sneak in to R-rated movies? Okay, Jon might be a little young to be Lord Commander, but he's not the youngest ever and everyone knows he's part Stark and that carries a lot of weight in the north.

[YOSSARIAN]

I expected Bran to be changed into a female by the three-eyed crow and become a whore. Sorry if my values seem old-fashioned, but I just think Bran is way too young to be a supernatural transgendered prostitute.

SPOILER ALERT




Arya is killed when she tries fight her way into the Braavosi cineplex to see the NC-17 rated director's cut of Larry the Cable Guy:Health Inspector.

[TK-421]

Well, the age thing can't too big of a problem if you're still reading the series and geeking out on the internet talking about it in a forum like this one.

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by TK-421

Well, the age thing can't too big of a problem if you're still reading the series and geeking out on the internet talking about it in a forum like this one.

Ahem. I'm not geeking it out. I'm nerding it out. And there are a lot worse things we all could be doing on the internet...



Like discussing Star Wars. Or NASCAR. Or Star Wars.

[direghost]

(I think he meant the geeking out more towards me, Arya.)

Of course I still like Martin, but the name of thread is ASOIAF weaknesses, so I listed some things I thought could be improved. Obviously no book can be perfect, let alone a series of 800+ page books. And the age thing, in my opinion, is a bit of a problem....

[TK-421]

Touché Arya...embrace your inner geek/nerd. Let it flow with the force...would be ironic (ha!ha!) to get into a debate about whose the biggest geek on a fantasy/science-fiction forum..

I could never really understand NASCAR and the American obsession with it