The Valars and their Maiars

[orionsixwings]

Just noticed the great influence the Valars had to the Maiars under them:

Nienna - Olorin (Gandalf)
Oromë - Pallando & Alatar
Aulë - Curume (Saruman)
Yavanah - Radagast

Nienna taught pity and endurance, and Gandalf is the personifcation of pity, showing Gollum so much pity and influencing Frodo to do the same.

Yavannah also called the 'Giver of Fruits', was a Vala whose province was all growing things upon the earth and sure enough it was the fall of Radagast as he was corrupted by nature.

Aulë was the builder and inventor of the Valar, and as we know, Saruman loves to invent things. Aulë was also able to invent an entire race -- the Dwarves --- so it's little wonder why Saruman had a thing for making his own army.

Oromë is the Hunstman of the Valar, it is said that he rode the forests of Middle Earth hunting -- However, Pallando and Alatar were discussed very little in the books, we can assume that the desire to wander in Middle Eart came from the influence of Oromë who wandered Middle Earth as well.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Sauron was also one of Aulë's Maiar, before he switched allegiance to Melkor.

[orionsixwings]

Yeah, forgot about him. I actually concentrated on the Istari (lol!) But as you can see, there's a definite pattern of corruption in Aulë's Maiar's, since both Sauron and Saruman (Both with S names) got corrupted by power. Is Tolkien trying to tell us that those who are good with invention -- like more on material things --- are susceptible to corruption and greed?

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think that's exactly what he is trying to tell us. It's a theme that runs through quite a bit of his mythos, that tension between art/craftsmanship in its purer form and the possessiveness and materialism that can develop. Think of the Noldor, the Dwarves, and even the Entwives (when they stopped tending forests and started "making" gardens, they seem to have sealed the doom of their race).

[orionsixwings]

I take it, he doesn't like Scientists.

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think that's a safe assumption.

[Raynor]

I don't think that he dislikes scientists per se - he dislikes all those who are impatient enough to go against the proper order of things - which under his worldview is the very definition of evil. Melkor was impatient with the emptiness, Sauron with ordering things, Aule with the coming of the Children of Eru, Men were impatient to grow and give shape to their thoughts (and therefore fell to Melkor's 'gifts')), etc.

On the Istari in particular, it is said in letter #181:

They were also, for the same reason, thus involved in the peril of the incarnate: the possibility of 'fall', of sin, if you will. The chief form this would take with them would be impatience, leading to the desire to force others to their own good ends, and so inevitably at last to mere desire to make their own wills effective by any means. To this evil Saruman succumbed.

[orionsixwings]

Is that really considered a fault? Impatience even if the end result or original purpose is for the good of many? Does it really corrupt?

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by orionsixwings

Is that really considered a fault? Impatience even if the end result or original purpose is for the good of many? Does it really corrupt?

Reminds me of the warnings Gandalf and Galadriel gave at the prospect of owning the One Ring - initial good intentions inevitably corrupted.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by orionsixwings

Is that really considered a fault? Impatience even if the end result or original purpose is for the good of many? Does it really corrupt?

I would say it is the other way around; 'corruption' (i.e. an improper attitude towards Eru/Authority) leads to impatience.