Delenn and Sheridan - a forced relationship?

[I, Brian]

Through Seasons 2 to 3, Delenn and Sheridan become a romantic item.

However, Delenn changes herself into a half-human/half-Minabari, she states that she's trying to use herself as a bridge between both peoples.

Recently, watching season 2, Delenn makes the first move, touching John's hand while seated together.

Does this mean that Delenn's involvement with John Sheridan was always a calculated move, intended from the start to try and forge an actual physical relationship between the two races, centered on a human-Minbari coupling?

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Through Seasons 2 to 3, Delenn and Sheridan become a romantic item.

However, Delenn changes herself into a half-human/half-Minabari, she states that she's trying to use herself as a bridge between both peoples.

Recently, watching season 2, Delenn makes the first move, touching John's hand while seated together.

Does this mean that Delenn's involvement with John Sheridan was a calculated move from the start, intended from the start to try and forge an actual physical relationship between the two races, human and Minbari, centered on themselves?

I just finished re-watching War Without End in season 3, so this is remarkably good timing from my perspective

********SPOILERS********





In War Without End, Delenn mentions that Valen/Sinclair started the merging of Mimbari & Human souls and caused Mimbari souls to be born into Human bodies (which of course saved the human race from annihilation in the Earth/Mimbari war). She then goes on to say that she transformed herself to 'balance the scales'. Earlier in the series (Soul Hunter - season 1) she refers to Mimbari souls being 'lost' - most of their best thinkers, poets, artists etc are not reborn into the Mimbari collective. This says to me that the 'bridge' created by Sinclair/Valen was "one-way" and Human souls were not coming across to Mimbari to compensate. Delenn's actions were to equalise this interaction between the two species and, I'm sure, give something tangible for Sheridan to fight for, something personally invested in the wars to come.

That's my 2c anyway

[Paradox 99]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Does this mean that Delenn's involvement with John Sheridan was always a calculated move, intended from the start to try and forge an actual physical relationship between the two races, centered on a human-Minbari coupling?

Winters Sorrow has the answer there about balancing the species. I'm not so sure if Delenn saw it as necessary thing to become intimately involved with a human though.
I think their relationship was supposed to be seen as genuine true love that developed because of two people sharing their trobles in a time of crisis - it was supposed to develop naturally, and if anything it could be said that it was demonstrating or underlining the fact that the "universe" was working out a purpose. Coincidence that they love each other? No, the sentient design of the universe.

[Cyril]

Everything a Minbari does is calculated due to their allegiance to the Vorlon Empire and the mystic structure of their society inherited from Valen. No exception with Delenn. I think Delenn seducing Sheridan is at first a political concern with goals as described above. But afterward, I guess Delenn felt in love with Sheridan as they shared sorrows and the vision of a common released future of the Valen prophecy.

[Whitestar]

Interestingly enough, Straczynski has publicly stated in numerous interviews that originally, it was Sinclair who was to be romantically involved with Delenn. Everything that happened to Sheridan was supposed to happen to Sinclair, however, the network execs didn't like Michael O'Hare because they found him to be rather wooden and lacked chrisma. Of course, I do not subscribe to this point-of-view. I thought O'Hare was wonderful in the role of Sinclair. He played it with such passion and thoughtfulness. The fact that he's a graduate of the illustrious Julliard University is proof of that.


Anyway, another interesting fact is that the fate of Anna Sheridan was originally written for Catherine Sakai. She would have boarded the Icarus, landed on Zha'dum and altered by the Shadows. When Sinclair learned of this, he sets out to rescue her by stealing the Whitestar and head to Zha'dum, where he immediately realizes that she is forever lost and brings the Whitestar to crash on the surface of Zha'dum, coupled with nuclear warheads, just as he leaps off into a deep abyss, dies, meets Lorien and is resurrected, only to learn that he has only twenty years left to live.


While I like the character of Sheridan, I've always found Sinclair to be far more fascinating. He was darker and more complex than Sheridan, which is why I think the studio execs didn't like the character of Sinclair. They wanted someone who was sunshine and roses, day in and day out. However, over the course of the remaining four seasons, we witnessed Sheridan going from a soldier admiring his metals to evolving into a mature political leader, not to mention an unintentional messiah as well.


Still, I can't help but think of how things would have turn out for the series if Straczynski had his way: Sinclair remaining on the show for all five seasons. Ah.... what could have been, I wonder.


Whitestar

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Through Seasons 2 to 3, Delenn and Sheridan become a romantic item.

However, Delenn changes herself into a half-human/half-Minabari, she states that she's trying to use herself as a bridge between both peoples.

Recently, watching season 2, Delenn makes the first move, touching John's hand while seated together.

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by Whitestar

Interestingly enough, Straczynski has publicly stated in numerous interviews that originally, it was Sinclair who was to be romantically involved with Delenn.

Well, in that case the "War without End" two-parter would have been considerably different...unless you're telling me Garabaldi was supposed to be Valen!!

[babylon5man]

Do you think delenn changed herself into half minbari half human to conker the human race?

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by babylon5man

Do you think delenn changed herself into half minbari half human to conker the human race?

No.
Do you think fairies live at the bottom of your garden?

[manephelien]

Originally Posted by Winters_Sorrow

Well, in that case the "War without End" two-parter would have been considerably different...unless you're telling me Garabaldi was supposed to be Valen!!

No, Sinclair would still have been Valen, although I suspect that the going back in time would have happened instead of Sleeping in Light. However, it would have meant that Delenn who had Valen's genes, since she could make the triluminary work, might have had a relationship with an ancestor about 30 generations removed, assuming Minbari generations are as close as human ones.

[Frontierzone]

Originally Posted by Winters_Sorrow

Well, in that case the "War without End" two-parter would have been considerably different...unless you're telling me Garabaldi was supposed to be Valen!!

A bit weird, but here goes. If Garabaldi, for the sake of arguement, were to have become Valen, then the shadows would have been sent packing 1,000 years earlier. On the downside, the Mimbari would have become extinct, because, after a while on the job, Michael would have caved under pressure, and gone on a drinking binge. And, with the affect that alohol has on the Membari, and Michael Gerabaldi becoming one, there would be no survivors afterward.

And, don't get me started on the subject of Susan Ivanova becoming Valen.....BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gothic_Angelica]

I'm pretty sure that they intended Delenn to be either male or asexual before she changed into a half human/half minbari hybrid. (note that the make up in the gathering is different to the actual series)

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by Gothic_Angelica

I'm pretty sure that they intended Delenn to be either male or asexual before she changed into a half human/half minbari hybrid. (note that the make up in the gathering is different to the actual series)

I'd guess the differences in makeup between the pilot and series were practical, due to either
A. The execs wanting Mira Furlan to look more feminine to viewers, or
B. Mira Furlan wanting a bit less of an extreme makeup job (it certainly took hours each day, and I could see the pilot makeup taking twice as long as the series makeup).

Delenn's transformation could only have been to bring the Minbari and humans together... I think the union, with Delenn as the sacrificial bride-offering to bring two kingdoms together, was what was intended to "balance the scales."

It's possible that she hoped to form a union with Sinclair/Valen, knowing who he was, but circumstances forced her to Sheridan instead. But she never gave the impression that she was disappointed with getting Sheridan instead of Sinclair, so I think the person she wed was immaterial, but the union--any union--was seen as vital. (Remember, she was a member of the Grey Council, placed on B5 as an Ambassador, far below her real station, and acting on a higher order.)

[Sathena]

Ok - I've just finished the 3rd season and haven't seen anything after,, so bear with me if my response is uneducated:
But how do you feel that Delenn started the relationship? Oh sure, she pats his hand, but she is a person who comforts others. She pats lots of men's hands. It was the chemistry between them, which I don't think the writers were trying to insinuate she knew would be there, which turned the gesture into anything else. And from that moment to the moment they both have flashes telling them they will be together, it's actually Sheridan who pushes their relationship forward: he tells her how he feels, he asks her on the dinner date, etc. Now, obviously Delenn from the beginning of their relationship wanted to move fast in getting his friendship and trust: mostly, I would read, b/c she got burned when Sinclair didn't come to her until she was already cocooned, directly as a result of her moving so slowly with him that he didn't really trust her until it was almost too late.
But I would read that the romantic relationship between them she was not expecting. Nor, OBVIOUSLY were the rest of the Minbari (given that they told her not to rush with the transformation anyway), so I would think it was not some part of a Minbari manipulation to get John to sign on. After all, they were excessively pissed off when he was assigned - you think they already knew that he would be "the one that will be" who would lead them in the war and so they needed to give him that incentive? Not a lot of sense-making there. But that's just me.

Oh, and to the remark that originally everything that happens to Sheridan was going to happen to Sinclair: I agree for the most part, but think that does not include the relationship with Delenn. I think that they would have remained just friends. I just don't see how they would move fast enough after Catherine Sakai would have been taken by the shadows, to have him mourn her and then fall in love with Delenn. It just wouldn't be believable. It was already a stretch with John, that he didn't question that she was dead (they didn't, after all, ever explicitly say she was) but is made believable by the fact he'd already mourned her for three years, and inasmuch as possible, accepted her death.

In addition, it seems to me that originally the "theft" of Babylon 4 would not have taken place until some time after the contemporary war against the shadows was over. The whole "he ages because he gets re-exposed to the time field" seems like a makeshift addition to me - which would explain how Sinclair leaps to the assumption that b/c he had a flash of Michael dying, he's going to die if he goes to B4 (after all, they're getting a transmission where Ivanova dies, which doesn't happen because SHE goes to B4) It makes sense only b/c in the first ep they had him aged, and so had to explain that some other way than by natural time passing. Hence, the makeshift, which is really not valuable enough to put in there if they didn't need it to explain something. Plus, there are bunch of other inconsistencies from the first B4 episode to the second that fall in with that thesis - Zathrus originally made it seem as if "the one" he was pointing to was the main impetus behind the timeshift: that he was enduring the pain in order to achieve that goal, not simply because of a mistake. I also remember him at least insinuating (sry, it's been a couple months and I don't have the episode in front of me) that the stabilizer he gave that "the one" was his: that after he gave it, he no longer had one and would die. This obviously doesn't fit in with what happens in the 2nd episode , but makes more sense if you assume that at the time of the first episode, they assumed this was many years in the future (after Sinclair had learned how to make ships travel through time) and, of course, that the whole triumvirated "the one" thing was an addition after they decided to replace Sinclair.

Anyway, these are my thoughts, sry if I'm making some huge error on account of not having seen the last two seasons yet. However, if someone would help me out with one thing:

The end of season 3, while excellent, left me with a question:
How would Sheridan leap to the conclusion that in the future he saw when he came "unstuck" in time, he DIDN'T go to Zha'hadum? WHY would Delenn need to scream at him as he's being pulled away "Do not go to Zha'hadum" if in that reality she was able to convince him not to go? Now I know that he gets resurrected, thanks to my penchant for reading spoilers (bad me), so:

is this just supposed to be an error on his part due to the fact that he knows if he goes to Zha'hadum he'll die, and thus assumes that in the future he was alive, he didn't go, and thus he's actually recreating that future by going to Zha'hadum, (in which case, clever writers, silly (but brave and heroic, of course) John,

or is this an error on the producer's part and they're actually saying that he's right, in that future he DIDN'T go to Zha'hadum, and that by going to Zha'hadum, he's erased that future and Centauri is saved? In which case, silly producers, that doesn't make any sense, why would Delenn be so desperate for him not to go to Zha'hadum if in that reality he never went there!

Anyway, please don't answer the question in detail b/c I don't want to know everything that happens, just say "John's error" or "Producer's error"
Thanks!