Bonehunters

[nixie]

Originally Posted by Rane Longfox

True, ben, but...




SPOILERS




He was so close to letting Kalam die, and then he had some random stuff with Dancer and left him in the Deadhouse. Whats that about? Just let him die, Hood damn it!!

NO... I liked that I didn't want Kalam to die

[Rane Longfox]

I don't think anyone gets my point. I've tried to explain it on a number of forums, and failed every time.



SPOILERS




I don't want these characters to die. Kalam is awesome, one of the best characters in the series, and I'd severely miss him if he went. But having said that, if Erikson is gonna make him wade through 600 Claw, only to have him fall gallantly at the end, then JUST LET HIM GO WITH SOME DIGNITY!!! Dragging them off into the malazan equivilent of cold-storage in an Azath is just not good story-making. If he's gonna do it, go the whole hog Stevie m'boy, don't chicken out half way!!

[Green]

I agree completely. Plus imo, conversationalist ghost = back from the dead. Let them be.


SPOILERS



In Bonehunters, Scillara and Cutter both should have died. I don't care who was supposed to be protecting them (there's no evidence of that anyway). They both should have died. Probably the baby too. And Greyfrog. Very fortunate that his race can shed a dead body, don't you think? Grow some balls, man.

[nixie]

Ok I do get your point, the dead should stay dead,but I'd sorely miss Kalam if he wasn't around in the future.

[Rosemary]

I daresay you are all correct in saying that the dead should stay dead...
however after thinking about it, that does take an element of speculation out of the story. Do you not wonder, like I do, how a character will reappear? Yes, I know I said it was frustrating but perhaps that is part of Erikson's plan!

[Green]

If it's part of his plan, then it's a crap plan. To bring a character back from the dead is to belittle any emotional response you had to their death.

[bendoran]

SPOILERS


Cutter didnt die, neither did scillara. An implied death isnt a death. grey frogs a demon for god sake so what does that matter.

As for kalam, i didnt find anything wrong with what happened. It was used to force apsalar to act and to make lostara deal with pearl. Emotionally it was quite an impact because you were left thinking kalam was dead. Yet knowing erikson and when pearl mentioned the poison taking time it seemed to me that someone was going to save him. first read i thought banascher was going to save him or someone like that, but even still i was happy with the end.

the only bit i didnt like really was dujek's death. All that just to succumb to a plague when we werent even there to witness it. Now that is copping out.

[Green]

Originally Posted by bendoran

SPOILERS


Cutter didnt die, neither did scillara. An implied death isnt a death. grey frogs a demon for god sake so what does that matter.

They should have died, is my point.

And if you bring the demon argument into it, then why not have greyfrog fly faster than a speeding bullet, leap tall buildings in a single bound and be more powerful than a locomotive? Then, he could teleport into the CG's warren, poison him with just a wink of his eye, and then get back in time to save Kalam from the spider poison. He could do all of this if you just explain that he's a demon.

Would make for a weak plot device though.

[bendoran]

that wasnt my point, my point was that you dont know anything about greyfrog. i didnt particularly care for his character so if erikson wanted to make him shrink in death then fair ewnough, its an interesting take on death. as for cutter and scillara, well he should have been killed, but it wasnt instantaneous, he just ot his guts iopen. not ripped apart mind just released and scillara was stabbed through the shoulder, eriskon was very exact in his descriptions of both, to imply a death wund but not force a death. One of my friends was stabbed in the throat a few years ago and he didnt die. But if you were reading in a book that someone was stabbed in the throat you would assume they were dead. people are in some cases very resilient, while in others death can come swiftly for what seems minor.

ultimately it comes down to personal choice. i enjoy when books use misdirection. i dont see it as a weak ploy. No one stood there and went yes this charcter, hes dead oh and so is that one. Even reading it, i knew they couldnt be. You cant take an entire thread halfway through book 6 that has been building since book 3 and just cut it. People would be so pissed off. imagine they all died bar felisin, you would be ripping, thinking what was the point in all that crap up to then? no instead eriskon led you one direction, then went, ha! he took what seemed the most slow moving and pointless thread in the book and rocketed it forward with that scene. good writing in my book

[Green]

I disagree. I think it was unbelievable that either of those two characters lived (Scillara got a T'lan Imass sword through her chest and out through her back. Cutter was eviscerated. Both of these strike me as mortal wounds). It was also convenient that Greyfrog had a way to cheat death. In fact, the only one of the four involved that actually died was Heboric. And even he came back, briefly.

It was their deaths that moved the story on, not their survival. That they survived shows that Erikson was running pretty low on ideas for these guys, imo. He should have found some other way to make them interesting.

And I agree that having them all die would have been a disappointing dead-end to the thread. I was disappointed with the whole Heboric situation - I'd have rather he had been the sole survivor (at least he's interesting). But having said that, if they had all died, I would have at least believed it.

[Rosemary]

Ah but we shouldn't forget though, that this is a fantasy series...

So surely things which seem strange or wrong to us, such as making the characters stay dead, should not surprise us in the least...

[williamjm]

Originally Posted by Rosemary

Ah but we shouldn't forget though, that this is a fantasy series...

So surely things which seem strange or wrong to us, such as making the characters stay dead, should not surprise us in the least...

It isn't so much a question of plausibility, but more that resurrecting characters continually reduces any dramatic impact their deaths may have. Doing it too often (as, say, Robert Jordan does) is poor storytelling. Erikson isn't too bad at it, although arguably he still does a bit too often, but at least when characters do return they rarely seem to be unscathed by their experience.

Characters appearing to be dead, but shortly after turning out to somehow survive without dying is less annoying. It is a fairly cheap storytelling trick to build up a bit of temporary suspense for a couple of chapters but it is reasonably effective as long as it isn't overused.

[bendoran]

@green- well scillara was stabbed not with a massive blade like say Karsa's but a scimitar which is thin and curved. She wasnt stabbed in a lung or anything, so why would she die? The only cause would be shock, death or infection. The townsfolk found them quickly and although they feared for her, loric turned up to cure any fever she had.

cutter is a harder one, but sure watch dog soldiers and sean pertwee was alright after his guts came out, all that happened him was he became a werewolf that aint so bad now, is it?

[Rosemary]

Well at last I have finished reading The Bonehunters…

I have to admit I am still finding it a little hard to work out which character belongs to which tribe/army though.
The part that remains strong in my memory is when Kalam (with the ironic help from Cotillion) are climbing on one of the Sky Keeps where Quick Ben the High Mage and Corporal Stormy are. Again Erikson’s dry wit is much in evidence and something that I do enjoy.
I was very happy to read more about some of my favourite characters, such as Sgt Fiddler, Icarium and Heboric Ghost Hands and also Apsalar who is not Apsalar The Assassin.

I still feel that I will have to read the entire series, once it is completed, to fully appreciate the Malazan Series.

[nixie]

I'm having a reread sometime later this year.I can see me rereading this series even more than Feists Riftwar.