Read first one, does it realy get better? - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Lavos · 18th February 2006, 02:22 AM

I bought both Gardens and Deadhouse, and I know everyone is saying that Gardens of the Moon is the worst one in the series, but after reading it, I realy dont have any will to read the next one.

In my mind Erikson is in no way better than D&D books, everywhere unrealisticaly powerful people, magic is absurdly strong. Characters are very numerous but also very lifeless. They get a name and couple of character developing lines and thats it. That all is really everything I dont like in fantasy. I know this sound like I hated the book, but I quite liked the story, its got complex background and overall it was a decent fantasy. But decent fantasy is pletiful and most of them are much less time consuming.

Most important is that I realy like strong living characters and for the ones in Eriksons book I didnt care a thing.

So my question, does it get drastically better?

nixie · 18th February 2006, 08:35 AM

Give Gatehouse Gates ago before given up completely,it does get better.

Rane Longfox · 18th February 2006, 09:21 AM

If you hate GotM then theres no guarentee you'll enjoy the later ones, obviously, but it is constantly remarked that Erikson's writing gets significantly better in the second book. Personally, I loved all of them, but I'm generally considered a few colours short of a picture...

HieroGlyph · 18th February 2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lavos

...unrealisticaly powerful people, magic is absurdly strong...

Characters ... lifeless...
...
But decent fantasy is pletiful and most of them are much less time consuming.

So my question, does it get drastically better?

Some parts might get better, but drastically is a strong word...

As for powerful people, I think if you get a 'feel' for this new universe you'll understand what power is like and that no-one has too much power and gets away with it...

You'd have to explain the lifelessness you have interpreted.

Dont give up and dont be too critical

. Youve obviously read a fair bit, so you must know there are reads at which you can look back upon and think "now that was worth the effort!"

and this series is quite varied and ... unfinished. If its a matter of time-wasting for you then hold off for a few years. No-one is forcing you

Rahl Windsong · 18th February 2006, 07:45 PM

Actually the brilliance of Erikson, at least for me, is the fact that he has created this story that really should be too full of powerful characters, but somehow Erikson makes it work. In Roleplay there is a rule, never make your character too powerful and never make your character too weak it just becomes too difficult for most people to RP a character in either extreme and be convincing.

Having said that, Erikson takes that unwritten rule and says to hell with that and proceeds to write a brilliant and quite original story full of over powered characters and a few, like the Mhybe (SP?), that are too weak. Granted his strength is in his stronger characters but for me the reason you gave not to like this story is the main reason I love it.

Also Erikson seems to be taking a long time to tell us about these characters but personally I like that because it makes me want to find out more and to do that I have to continue to read.

So in conclusion if you really do enjoy fantasy with lots of branching plotlines and so many characters it becomes a challenge to remember them all, then keep reading you will be hard pressed to find anything out there that is more worth your time and effort.

Of course that is just my own opinion and if you continue to read I'd like to hear/read yours.

Rahl

Rosemary · 18th February 2006, 08:04 PM

I had the same trouble as you Lavos. Too many characters, too many armies, too much blood and guts etc.

I don't give in too easily, so as advised read the second volume. It does get better. I am now three quarters of the way through the fourth book.

GOLLUM · 18th February 2006, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosemary

I don't give in too easily, so as advised read the second volume. It does get better. I am now three quarters of the way through the fourth book.

Whoa good progress Rosemary. Before you know it you'll be up to Midnight Tides and not too far away from the rest of us....

Rosemary · 18th February 2006, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOLLUM

Whoa good progress Rosemary. Before you know it you'll be up to Midnight Tides and not too far away from the rest of us....

You are very persuasive Precioussss - Midnight Tides is already in my bookcase waiting to be read

nixie · 18th February 2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosemary

You are very persuasive Precioussss - Midnight Tides is already in my bookcase waiting to be read

I thought I talked you into MT instead of the Ms Dart Thortons book

GOLLUM · 18th February 2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nixie

I thought I talked you into MT instead of the Ms Dart Thortons book

We can take half commision each Nixie, at this rate we'll both be rich MUWHAA!!!.....

nixie · 18th February 2006, 10:55 PM

50/50 split sounds good to me mate

Mulch · 20th February 2006, 11:25 AM

It does get better, I have just re-read GOTM and thoroughly enjoyed it, the first time I read it I hated the first half of the book then enjoyed the second. Now that I've read all the other books in the series, I enjoyed the first half of GOTM as I had a better understanding of what was going on.

Rosemary · 20th February 2006, 05:47 PM

Actually, that is a very good idea Mulch. Perhaps re-reading the entire series will clarify some of the more puzzling aspects of the books.

Morreion · 30th May 2006, 02:46 AM

I too had a bit of trouble at first with GotM, being dropped into a complex storyline and detailed world... but I am near the end of Deadhouse Gates and I have ordered several more volumes of the series. It does get better. Whereas Gardens leaves you wondering a bit if it all came together, Deadhouse is no less complex, but solid and mature writing. Several of the scenes are breathtaking.

Keep on!

Winters_Sorrow · 30th May 2006, 12:43 PM

Well Lavos. I can definitely sympathise as that's pretty much how I first felt about GotM. Too many characters to follow and you find you don't care what happens to them.

Having said that, I did enjoy the second half of GotM and can see some potential in the story. I like the idea of Warrens and the fact that nearly all the Bridgeburners have a hidden agenda/background and aren't just soldiers.

I'm a little disappointed that Deadhouse Gates seems to be set hundreds of miles away with a whole new set of characters to get to know (apart from Kalam etc).

I'm keep chugging along with it I suppose.
Am I the only one seeing massive parallels with Ray Feist's Riftwar series though?
Jaghut = Valheru
Tiste Andii = Elves
Bridgeburners = Doomed men (or whatever they were called - y'know Erik von Darkmoor & that lot)
The Claw = Nighthawks

maybe I've just read too many fantasy books and I'm starting to see re-occuring cliches though.

18th February 2006, 02:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
Lavos Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vatican City Posts: 1	Read first one, does it realy get better? I bought both Gardens and Deadhouse, and I know everyone is saying that Gardens of the Moon is the worst one in the series, but after reading it, I realy dont have any will to read the next one. In my mind Erikson is in no way better than D&D books, everywhere unrealisticaly powerful people, magic is absurdly strong. Characters are very numerous but also very lifeless. They get a name and couple of character developing lines and thats it. That all is really everything I dont like in fantasy. I know this sound like I hated the book, but I quite liked the story, its got complex background and overall it was a decent fantasy. But decent fantasy is pletiful and most of them are much less time consuming. Most important is that I realy like strong living characters and for the ones in Eriksons book I didnt care a thing. So my question, does it get drastically better? Last edited by Lavos; 18th February 2006 at 02:40 AM.

18th February 2006, 08:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
nixie pixie druid Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 2,627	Re: Read first one, does it realy get better? Give Gatehouse Gates ago before given up completely,it does get better.

18th February 2006, 09:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
Rane Longfox Pallid, Lumigoth Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Greater Manchester Posts: 3,187	Re: Read first one, does it realy get better? If you hate GotM then theres no guarentee you'll enjoy the later ones, obviously, but it is constantly remarked that Erikson's writing gets significantly better in the second book. Personally, I loved all of them, but I'm generally considered a few colours short of a picture...

18th February 2006, 07:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
Rahl Windsong Last of the Windsong Clan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 518	Re: Read first one, does it realy get better? Actually the brilliance of Erikson, at least for me, is the fact that he has created this story that really should be too full of powerful characters, but somehow Erikson makes it work. In Roleplay there is a rule, never make your character too powerful and never make your character too weak it just becomes too difficult for most people to RP a character in either extreme and be convincing. Having said that, Erikson takes that unwritten rule and says to hell with that and proceeds to write a brilliant and quite original story full of over powered characters and a few, like the Mhybe (SP?), that are too weak. Granted his strength is in his stronger characters but for me the reason you gave not to like this story is the main reason I love it. Also Erikson seems to be taking a long time to tell us about these characters but personally I like that because it makes me want to find out more and to do that I have to continue to read. So in conclusion if you really do enjoy fantasy with lots of branching plotlines and so many characters it becomes a challenge to remember them all, then keep reading you will be hard pressed to find anything out there that is more worth your time and effort. Of course that is just my own opinion and if you continue to read I'd like to hear/read yours. Rahl

18th February 2006, 08:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
Rosemary The Wicked Sword Maiden Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Australia, Western Australia Posts: 3,012	Re: Read first one, does it realy get better? I had the same trouble as you Lavos. Too many characters, too many armies, too much blood and guts etc. I don't give in too easily, so as advised read the second volume. It does get better. I am now three quarters of the way through the fourth book.

18th February 2006, 10:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
nixie pixie druid Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 2,627	Re: Read first one, does it realy get better? 50/50 split sounds good to me mate

20th February 2006, 11:25 AM	#12 (permalink)
Mulch Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tyne and Wear Posts: 30	Re: Read first one, does it realy get better? It does get better, I have just re-read GOTM and thoroughly enjoyed it, the first time I read it I hated the first half of the book then enjoyed the second. Now that I've read all the other books in the series, I enjoyed the first half of GOTM as I had a better understanding of what was going on.

20th February 2006, 05:47 PM	#13 (permalink)
Rosemary The Wicked Sword Maiden Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Australia, Western Australia Posts: 3,012	Re: Read first one, does it realy get better? Actually, that is a very good idea Mulch. Perhaps re-reading the entire series will clarify some of the more puzzling aspects of the books.

30th May 2006, 02:46 AM	#14 (permalink)
Morreion Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7	Re: Read first one, does it realy get better? I too had a bit of trouble at first with GotM, being dropped into a complex storyline and detailed world... but I am near the end of Deadhouse Gates and I have ordered several more volumes of the series. It does get better. Whereas Gardens leaves you wondering a bit if it all came together, Deadhouse is no less complex, but solid and mature writing. Several of the scenes are breathtaking. Keep on!

30th May 2006, 12:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
Winters_Sorrow Unreg. Mutant Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tyne and Wear Posts: 2,689	Re: Read first one, does it realy get better? Well Lavos. I can definitely sympathise as that's pretty much how I first felt about GotM. Too many characters to follow and you find you don't care what happens to them. Having said that, I did enjoy the second half of GotM and can see some potential in the story. I like the idea of Warrens and the fact that nearly all the Bridgeburners have a hidden agenda/background and aren't just soldiers. I'm a little disappointed that Deadhouse Gates seems to be set hundreds of miles away with a whole new set of characters to get to know (apart from Kalam etc). I'm keep chugging along with it I suppose. Am I the only one seeing massive parallels with Ray Feist's Riftwar series though? Jaghut = Valheru Tiste Andii = Elves Bridgeburners = Doomed men (or whatever they were called - y'know Erik von Darkmoor & that lot) The Claw = Nighthawks maybe I've just read too many fantasy books and I'm starting to see re-occuring cliches though.

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