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Boaz · 16th October 2007, 02:16 AM

App, In my perception the Wildlings are descendents of the First Men. The First Men, after many years of fighting the Children of the Forest, spread throughout the far reaches of the land of Westeros. I can think of two scenarios on how the lands north of the Wall became populated.

Mayhaps the progenitors of the Wildlings were caught on the wrong side of the Wall when it's foundations were laid. Presumably they were joined by others (primarily descendents of the First Men) who refused to submit to any lord's authority. The ability of every individual to govern him/herself is strong in the Wildlings.

If this was true, I'd think that the language of the Wildlings would have remained some strong form of the language of the First Men. But this is not the case... The Starks easily speak to the Wildlings and to the people of King's Landing.

The other (and mayhaps more likely) explanation is that after The Other was defeated 8,000 years ago some people went north to live free in the wild forests. The Wildlings know about the Others and the wights, but they seem to not know about The Other.

If this is the case, then the Andalish influence on what became the Common Tongue and it's use by the Wildlings is easier to explain.

Westeros and the War of the Five Kings has been compared to England and the War of the Roses. If medieval England is the inspiration for ASOIAF, then perhaps the languages and ethnic groups may be compared.

Maybe Wert, Raven, TK, or some of the posters who have heard GRRM speak could give better information than me, but here's my guess.

The Britons are the First Men. They came and pushed earlier inhabitants into the forests, mountains, and the north.

The Anglo-Saxons are the Andals. They invaded and pushed the Britons north and west. Their language, although influenced by the language of the natives, became the basis of English.

The Normans are the Targaryens. With a small, but professional army, the Normans conquered England. Their language became the court language, but the commoners kept the common tongue.

The Vikings are the Ironborn and the Rhoynar. Some Vikings raided, continued raiding and ultimately ruled huge tracts of lands through intimidation. Some Vikings found the land to their liking and settled among the locals.

In my thinking, the Romans don't really fit... though maybe a case could be made for their comparison to the Targaryens. This fit is best made linguistically... i.e. Latin is Valyrian, the language of all educated people.

I don't think GRRM has made a one to one transfer of languages, peoples, and religions of England to Westeros. It's more like he's gone through a huge salad bar... most of us don't associate jalapenos with sunflower seeds or bleu cheese with pineapples, but GRRM has mixed various ingredients with great success.

16th October 2007, 02:16 AM	#5 (permalink)
Boaz Frodo Lives! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,821	Re: Languages of Westeros... App, In my perception the Wildlings are descendents of the First Men. The First Men, after many years of fighting the Children of the Forest, spread throughout the far reaches of the land of Westeros. I can think of two scenarios on how the lands north of the Wall became populated. Mayhaps the progenitors of the Wildlings were caught on the wrong side of the Wall when it's foundations were laid. Presumably they were joined by others (primarily descendents of the First Men) who refused to submit to any lord's authority. The ability of every individual to govern him/herself is strong in the Wildlings. If this was true, I'd think that the language of the Wildlings would have remained some strong form of the language of the First Men. But this is not the case... The Starks easily speak to the Wildlings and to the people of King's Landing. The other (and mayhaps more likely) explanation is that after The Other was defeated 8,000 years ago some people went north to live free in the wild forests. The Wildlings know about the Others and the wights, but they seem to not know about The Other. If this is the case, then the Andalish influence on what became the Common Tongue and it's use by the Wildlings is easier to explain. Westeros and the War of the Five Kings has been compared to England and the War of the Roses. If medieval England is the inspiration for ASOIAF, then perhaps the languages and ethnic groups may be compared. Maybe Wert, Raven, TK, or some of the posters who have heard GRRM speak could give better information than me, but here's my guess. The Britons are the First Men. They came and pushed earlier inhabitants into the forests, mountains, and the north. The Anglo-Saxons are the Andals. They invaded and pushed the Britons north and west. Their language, although influenced by the language of the natives, became the basis of English. The Normans are the Targaryens. With a small, but professional army, the Normans conquered England. Their language became the court language, but the commoners kept the common tongue. The Vikings are the Ironborn and the Rhoynar. Some Vikings raided, continued raiding and ultimately ruled huge tracts of lands through intimidation. Some Vikings found the land to their liking and settled among the locals. In my thinking, the Romans don't really fit... though maybe a case could be made for their comparison to the Targaryens. This fit is best made linguistically... i.e. Latin is Valyrian, the language of all educated people. I don't think GRRM has made a one to one transfer of languages, peoples, and religions of England to Westeros. It's more like he's gone through a huge salad bar... most of us don't associate jalapenos with sunflower seeds or bleu cheese with pineapples, but GRRM has mixed various ingredients with great success.