The King's Justice

[napthali]

Has he been discussed? Just say yes and I'll shut up

How do you feel about him?hate him? pity him?couldn't care less? think there will be more to his character?

Personally, I thinks he enjoys his job a wee bit too much. Even so I do kinda feel sorry for him. I wonder if was a sadistic brute before the mutilation? I'm not really dying (pun intended ) to see more of him, but I an curious.

[AryaUnderfoot]

I see no reason to pity Ilyn Payne. His lifestyle reflects what goes on inside as well, I think. His role as King's Justice is fitting, as far as how emotionally removed from the world he seems to be, but certainly someone a little erm... healthier would be better in that role.

I think that "creepy" is really the best possible word one could use to describe him.

[Aura-star]

hi

[Boaz]

Hello, Aura-star. Welcome to the Chronicles Network.

AU, creepy is a good word. In Jaime's redemption, he seems intent upon taking Ser Ilyn, a grotesque like himself, along for the ride. In AGOT, Jaime tried to murder Bran, shunned cripples, and would never have been caught dead with Ilyn, Pia, or Brienne. Now he tries to befriend and help redeem the helpless and the loveless. I think he's desperately trying to save his soul by ammending his ways. Not that he's perfect, mind you, he's still a Lannister after all.

Anyway, Ilyn seems to enjoy that anyone would want to spend time with him. He also seems to enjoy the emotional torture that Jaime is going through. Ilyn seems to be a perverse guy... I wonder if he was before Aerys took his tongue. He might like Jaime just because Jaime gutted Aerys.

PS - I love substantive posts. Keep up the good work.

[direghost]

Payne is an interesting character, to be sure. I don't find him creepy reading about him, but wouldn't want to meet the guy in a dark alley or anything. I suspect he's pretty tough--not just an executioner but he was the captian of Tywin Lannister's guard for a while. But I don't think we'll get a lot more of his background....unless he's the new POV.... Hmmm.... that would be a twist.

[napthali]

Hi Aura-star

thanks guys..all good points

yes it would be interesting if he were given a POV

[Dolorous Edd]

Scarred - both physically and mentally. Not someone you'd let baby sit your kids.

And yet young podric is one of the nicest, most loyal and courageous characters in the whole series. Despite his mistreatment by his uncle(?) and others.

[TK-421]

I certainly do not pitty him (not like Sandor anyways...he would kill me for pittying him..) but in AFFC, I had a good chuckle when he laughed at Jaime and when Jaime told him he talked too much...Some good comic relief.

GRRM is setting up Illyn to play some important role at some point concerning Jaime. Either by helping him, saving him somehow or even killing him as Jaime is maybe the first person to seek out his company and share things with him.

[Faceless Woman]

I think Jaime is foolish to speak in front of him. He still has hands doesn't he? He is noble-born so can probably write. He could be one of Varys' little birds. No-one bothers to guard their tongues from people who can't speak, no more than for babies or servants.

[Detritus]

Ilyn Payne was captain of Tywin's Guard but I don't think he was of noble birth. He obviously can't speak to anyone and is unable to read and write. His job as King's Justice carries the responsibility for the castle's gaols and dungeons but he uses the chief undergoaler (mr. I have a drop of the blood royal in me nudge nudge wink wink say no more) and his subordiniates to do all the bookkeeping.

Maybe Payne could convey to someone, through a primitive form of sign language, the things that Jaime told him? After all, he must have been able to communicate with others in some form or other. Hell, who knows, he may be a closet artist and surprise everyone one day by producing a mural on the walls of the Great Keep detailing Jaime's 'confessions' to him OOO, no, wait, maybe hes a secret embroidery fanatic and will unfurl a banner from his window showing Jaime and Cersei doing the dirty...

[Faceless Woman]

LMAO.
He is noble born, though only a minor noble. The Paynes, like Podric Payne etc.
You are right about not reading though, I forgot that bit... unless he's faking it ;-).

[Winters_Sorrow]

Good post napthali, as I don't think he's been discussed in any depth before.

I concur with FW above as I think he is one of Varys' little birds. Although nominally a vassal to the Lannisters, he doesn't appear to be that loyal. He seems very much to be happy looking after his own interests. I wasn't aware about his lack of reading/writing - does anyone have a reference?

[Detritus]

Took me a little while but here you go:

P396 of the British first edition hardback, 2nd paragraph -
'And for that task, Ser Ilyn Payne was singularly ill suited. As he could neither read, write nor speak, Ser Ilyn had left the running of the dungeons to his underlings, such as they were.'

I don't really see Payne as one of Varys' little birds, he cares for nothing, including his own personal surroundings, except killing, and I think it would be quite hard for him to get anything but a simple message across, let alone some of the information that Varys would be interested in.

Unless...........'Ser Ilyn Payne, Charades Champion of Westeros' - now I have an image in my head of a steely eyed Ilyn and Varys, in a quiet part of the keep, with Ilyn on his knees waddling across the floor in a brilliantly mimed impression of Tyrion...