Arya's last pov chapter AFFC

[Boaz]

Robbedo, Welcome!

Undead assassins is an interesting theory. I've seen sillier, I've posted sillier.

I'm going to use the terms undead, resurrected, reanimated, etc. but what I mean is people who were dead and are now walking around. Thoros might have said of Catelyn, "she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead." I don't mean people like Davos, Aeron, or Patchface who could have swallowed water, become unconscious and been revived. I do mean people who are morally, ethically, spiritually, physically, positively, absolutely, undeniably, and reliably dead!

We've only seen a few of the Faceless Men... the old man and Jaqen, I'm not including Arya's little friend since she seems to not have graduated the Faceless school yet. But two things leap out at me. First, Young Stormlord hit the nail on the head... if Jaqen was already dead then why would Jaquen be afraid to die? Second, we've seen undead before... Beric, Catelyn, Ser Waymar, Small Paul. Undead beings seem to carry their appearances in death back with them in life/unlife and I see how a Faceless Man could overcome this, but the mindsets of Beric and Catelyn, notably, at the time of their deaths became their only mindset when they were reanimated. Waymar and Small Paul were just blind killing machines when they were resurrected. But Jaqen and the old man seem to have total control over a wide range of emotions for undead.

And I think the quote is not "Only life and can pay for death", rather I think it's "Only death can pay for life." There's more than a subtle difference here.

It may be that the Faceless Men ceremonially "kill" their acolytes. They may do something like the Ironborn do or it may be even less severe. Thus the Faceless Man is now dead to the world.

If you've lurked around the forums or if you've read a fair bit of posts, then you'll know I'm not the end all, be all of knowledge on ASOIAF. I post like it, but I'm not. My posts are only my opinions of the moment. If you or someone posts an opposing view, I might just change my opinion... I've done it before.

Again... Welcome!

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Wait....Boaz isnt the final word in these forums? Quelle suprise.....

So anyhow now that my sarcasm quota for a given post has been met....

I think we're forgetting that magic is only recently returned to this world. So any ceremony that involved killing the trainees then reanimating them would have had to be shelved for the last decade or two just out of simple expediency.

After some point, like I dont know the second dozen of trainees to be ceremoniously killed and the reanimation botched, some bright mind would have to consider not killing the potential operatives.

Remember the pyromancers of Kings Landing that continued utilizing their mystic rituals even though they didnt seem to do anything, then all of sudden BAM!, they have useful rituals again.

[Young stormlord]

Is it posible that Faceless Man have magic that is not connected to other magic in the world? My idea is this : Faceless Man were killing and changing faces (looks, call it whatever u want) even when dragons were dead. But in my mind that is not the highest level of magic. To me ability to change face (read take anothers persons face) is the same type of ability like waking fire from dragon glass (connection with Danny in Quarthe). U do not create anything new, u are just using(taking) what is already in there. Necromancy is in my eyes greater level magic, because u need to put life in dead body. (create something that is not there anymore)

So my point is this: Is it posible that Faceless Man had some greater abillities(which we haven't seen yet) which they lossed when last dragon dyed (which calls for a question how did that happened) but some smaller skills have survived?

[Robb the Lord]

The blindness is part of Arya's training and is not permanent.

Jaqen H'gar is not his real name.

The Faceless Men are not undead.

[MOUNTAIN THAT READS]

Originally Posted by Robb the Lord

The blindness is part of Arya's training and is not permanent.

Jaqen H'gar is not his real name.

The Faceless Men are not undead.

LOL!!! Ya what he said!!!!
welcome Robb

[Boaz]

Originally Posted by Aegon the Unworthy

So anyhow now that my sarcasm quota for a given post has been met....

Sarcasm quota. Funny stuff. Who writes your material? I need better writers.

YS, I don't know the mechanics or the Laws of Magic in ASOIAF. I don't know that GRRM has worked these out himself. We could all project the Laws of Magic from Tolkien, Rowling, LeGuin, Moorcock, Eddings, Feist, or D&D, but these mechanics may not be what Martin has in mind.

It seems that the geographic proximities of the Seven Kingdoms and the Free Cities to doomed Valyria disallow magic while dragons are absent. The Dothraki Sea is a long way from Valyria and thus the maegi is able to perform the magic ceremony to help Drogo. Following this idea, Pyat Pree or Quaithe said that magic never faded in the East... presumably because of the great distance from the cataclysm that befell Valyria.

The Sorrowful Men are the competing assassin's guild with the Faceless Men, if I'm not mistaken. The Sorrowful Men started with a slave in the Valyrian mines who put other slaves out of their misery. Ultimately these Sorrowful Men caused the catastrophe that destroyed Valyria, iirc. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) Does anyone know if the Faceless Men preceded the Sorrowful Men, if they were founded by a Sorrowful Man, or if they are completely independent?

If the Faceless Men are just a branch of the Sorrowful Men, would they somehow still be attempting to cause harm to the Valyrians and their dragons? Why did the Targaryen dragons die out? Some say battle, some say they were chained and not set free to grow, some say poisoned... mayber all three are correct. Assassins could have been working at giving bad counsel to the Targaryens (as Varys did to Robert) in order to kill the dragons and weaken the Targaryens without being seen as overt assassins. If the Targaryens had known the Faceless Men were seeking to do them harm, I think the Targaryens would have flown a couple dragons over and napalmed the Faceless Mens guild house.

All that to say, will Arya be sent to destroy the last of the Targaryens? Her possible assassination of Jon has been mentioned before.

p.s. Welcome Robb!

[Robbedo]

Alright thanks for the welcome mate, good to see your so open minded.

Alright maybe not the dead risen, but perhaps immortal???

As for the magic thing someone else wrote and the connection to the dragons, death has always been a part of the world, and the faceless men are servants of death.

Anyway I'm not trying to rumourfy someone elses idea, and I'm not going to call it silly. No offence this is science fiction so whatever George R R Martin wants to happen, will!

Nuff said

Laters hubertz

[Young stormlord]

Originally Posted by Robbedo

Alright thanks for the welcome mate, good to see your so open minded.

Alright maybe not the dead risen, but perhaps immortal???

As for the magic thing someone else wrote and the connection to the dragons, death has always been a part of the world, and the faceless men are servants of death.

Anyway I'm not trying to rumourfy someone elses idea, and I'm not going to call it silly. No offence this is science fiction so whatever George R R Martin wants to happen, will!

Nuff said

Laters hubertz

Let me try beating your teory. The same reason why they are not undead is the reason why they are not immortal. Why would you fear of the death if you are immortal? Or to citate Faceless Man himself : "Many have served here. " If they are immortal they wouldn't need many people, they would need only one (immortal). Welcome to the forums by the way.

To Boaz: I don't think that they are branch of Sorrowfull Man. I guess that every city has it's killers.

[the smiling weirwood]

The Faceless Men are the ones who started with the slave mercy killings in Valyrian mines. This would fit because the Free Cities were once controlled by Valyria.

The Sorrowful Men are so called because they apologize before their targets die. I don't believe the two groups have any connections.

[AandKsavetheDAY]

Immortal? Undead? What (lol)?
Its pretty certain that the faceless men have some sort of power that enables them to change their appearances, but I don't think its immortality or anything of that sort. Mayhaps they get their power from the Many-faced God???
I wonder if to be faceless, they have to sacrifice their actual appearance, so they can never become themselves again, but must always be impersonating someone else.
I thought I'd throw a crazy idea out there just for kicks and giggles.

[Boaz]

Eddard believed in killing a guilty man himself and not making another person do it. Ironic how Arya is going to become an executioner. She'll be killing people that others have concluded are guilty. To survive she'll become what her father despised.

Is her physical blindness a foreshadowing of the blindness of morals that an assassin needs?

She's going to become just like Jaqen. He was in chains and bound for the Wall... to kill Ned along the way. Yes? What will Arya do when she finally realizes this... that her teacher, the old man of Braavos, actually took a contract to kill her father and that Jaqen was the one to have killed Eddard? The fact that they did not actually get time to carry out the deed may be immaterial to Arya.

It's been speculated that Arya might be given the contract to kill Jon. The similarities between the impending clash between Arya and Jon reflect the previous hit on Eddard by Jaqen. What will Arya do?

Do you guys think Arya will completely give her heart and soul to the Faceless Men? Will she rebel against them at a later date? Or will she end up half-Stark and half-assassin always tormented and torn between her two lives?

[TK-421]

I still hold to the possibility that Arya will be given the contract to kill not Jon but Dany, thus becoming one of the three heads of the dragon that Dany needs.

[Aegon the Unworthy]

You think Arya is actually going to become a killer eh?

If memory serves Nymeria was a warrior-queen. Not a killer-queen. Maybe Im taking the wolves names too literal (Jon isnt literally a ghost or anything) but I always saw Arya as becoming some sort of mercenary commander. The Stark blood would rebel at being asked to be an assasin...much less actually killing Jon.

I dont know, maybe she starts the My Little Pony adventure theme park island or something, Id believe that before I believe she accepts a contract to kill Jon.

[Florian the Fool]

I like the sound of Arya as a Killer Queen. With gunpowder, guillotine, dynamite or a laser beam, she'd be guaranteed to blow my mind. Anytime.

Sorry, that's just a little classical reference for those able to appreciate it.

Arya might not accept a contract to kill Jon, but she might accept a contract to kill the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch if she doesn't realize who that is.

Plus, I don't know how much we have been told about how the Faceless Men operate. It may not be a question of picking and choosing contracts - it may simply be that you are sent to assassinate someone or other and you have to obey your orders. Obedience certainly seems to be part of their training.

[TK-421]

Her keeping Needle and not completely forgetting who she is and where she came from and who's on her revenge list is a big clue that Arya will never completely become a killer-for-hire.