The Valonqar

[Raven]

*shrugs* Well, I don't recall LF being irritated by Cersei - amused, yes, contemptuous, yes, pitying, almost, but never irritated particularly that I recall.

[TK-421]

I have to find the quote in AFFC but he says something like: Cersei is going to get what's coming to her or what she deserves...To me, it just came across like he wanted or had a hand in her downfall.

[scalem X]

Okay I must confess that i didn't know the meaning of valonquar.
But my money is on Jaime. And to back up my statement: I watch a lot of detective series (searching the murderer before he commited his crime is something new though ).

I can see Jaime doing it defending a woman. (younger and more beautiful than cersei ). I can almost taste the part where Jaime realises that after he killed his sister, the people will call him the queenslayer. Agh it's only speculation though

[Boaz]

Here's a new twist on the Valonqar (well, not counting Cersei's on Tyrion when he was a newborn)...

Tommen is technically her son and nephew... could he in any way be called Valonqar? And could Myrcella be the new queen to dethrone Cersei?

She's put everything into her kids... I'd love to see them be her downfall.

[TK-421]

Arya Underfoot suggested this on page 1 of this thread. This scenarion is certainly a possibility, especially if Tommen is forced to condem her to death after she broke the laws of the Gods. The newly armed and somewhat more influencial Faith will make sure Tommen respects these laws, even if it means putting his mother dearest to the sword. Now that would be poetic justice.

Wonder if Jaime would simply stand by and not intervene.

[Boaz]

Good work, TK. Not even my original thoughts are original...

[stonStark]

There are 3 theories:
a) Tryon is going to find Danny, ride a dragon, and slay his sister for Danny.

b) Jaime is going to kill Cersei .Possibly for Danny

c)Tywin probably had more then 3 children.......Cersei more then 2 brothers.

I think b)!

[Boaz]

Cersei has an unknown and unnamed brother? Interesting. If Tyrion was 24 or so when AGOT started, then Tywin has had twenty-three years or so to get bastards. In sex, like everything else, Tywin was very discreet. If he had bastards, they'd be hidden well. And remember, Tywin disdained all commoners, bastards and lesser nobles... so I don't think he'd recognize any of these bastards. Plus, he'd never do anything to jeopardize the future of House Lannister. Personally, I think he'd had a plan to discharge Jaime from the Kingsguard so Jaime could inherit Casterly Rock... and barring that he'd have given it to Tommen (providing Tommen took the name Lannister) or Lancel.

So if there is an unknown Valonqar out there, we'll just have to wait for him to be revealed.

Wild guesses: Hodor, Podrick Payne, Jon Snow, and Darkstar.

[stonStark]

Possible Podrick Payne, not Jon Snow, never Jon Snow!

[KiwiBird]

Worst guesses ever.

Hodor lived his whole life in the North, when did Tywin Lannister ever come that way, Darkstar is a Dornian, and the Dornish dont mix well with the rock.
Podrick Payne is from a lesser payne branch, and the boy clearly know his own parentage, nor is there or ever been a dispute about it.

And Jon Snow, well, i cant see lyanna and Tywin one on one, even not by rape, tywin doesn't seems that kind of man to lower himself so. Moreover he looks Stark like Arya, whom looks very much like Lyanna, so either he is a real ned Bastard or a Lyanna bastard, but i cant see him being offspring of Tywin

[Faceless Woman]

Jon a Lannister? Never! Sacrilige.
And the valonqar is so Jaime, with a new hand of course. Or possibly the gold one, but working, like Eril's stone one in the Banned and the Banished. If they can bring someone back to life, they can sort Jaime a hand. The loss has served its purpose.

[Faceless Woman]

Sorry Red Temple. So much for my theory being original... but you are so right, although Jaime doesn't have magic and would have to find a maegi... maybe Wotsit, Mad Maggie or whatever. She could give him his hand on the condition that he throttles Cersei with it. Some poetic justice and just a dash of self-fulfilling prophecy, I love it. Thoughts? Ideas?

[Hagar]

"brother" doesn't necessarilly have to stand for somebody's sibling. knights of the kingsguard are sworn brothers, members of the night's watch as well, and, if i remeber correctly, there are also "brothers without banners". so the valonqar actually might be jon, or even loras tyrell if he's alive, or gendry...

[Boaz]

Hagar, welcome!

By that logic any male who has a sibling or who is in an organization that uses the term "brother" qualifies. The brother relationship needs to be with Cersei herself. The Nights' Watch consider themselves brothers, but not Cersei's brothers... Jon was forced to admit that he was no longer Robb's brother so I don't see how he could be Cersei's.

Outside of Tyrion and Jaime mayhaps we could look at any man in a brotherly relationship to Cersei.

The sworn brothers of the Kingsguard are a possibility given that they are sworn to guard the king. One of the members of the Small Council, mayhaps?... though I confess I don't see Cersei as viewing herself a sister to any councillor.

Hagar, I don't mean to shut you down... Keep working this if you feel strongly about it. GRRM's use of Maggy's valonqar prophecy is curious because it seems so precise... only Jaime or Tyrion. Cersei is so certain it's Tyrion while we know that Jaime has turned his back on his romantic relationship with Cersei... Martin could be faking us out again. Mayhaps it will be one of the Kingsguard, though I think it's a bit of a stretch to say the least.

[Boaz]

Aemon changed his view on TPTWP from Prince to Princess. Could valonqar be wrong also? What if it was not little brother, but little sister instead? I don't have ideas on this... just asking a question.

Cersei got her prophecies from Maggy. The three prophecies were to be a queen, to be undone by the valonqar, and to be replaced by a younger queen... right? Could the valonqar and the replacement queen go together? i.e. Tyrion replaces Cersei with Dany or Jaime replaces Cersei with Myrcella. Or mayhaps Cersei has already been replaced with Margaery and were just waiting for the revelation of the valonqar.