Did he invent Orcs?

[lightvsdarkness]

Tolkien "invented" orcs, elves and hobbites. Maybe he do not invented new words, but obviously create this races in his world. Ancient elves was not Tolkien's ones, and orcs - corrupted elves(angels and fallen angels - demons, i suppose).

Hobbits - indeed original creatures. Modificated people. To the best.

[Oneoftheistari]

It says in the foreword that orcs are just hobbits names for goblin and the urakhai are orcs and elves together. Is this correct?

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by kyektulu

I believe Tolkien invented the current concept of elves in fantasy books, the stature, culture and physical features etc..
However elves being fey folk at the bottom of ones garden has been in fairytales for hundreds of years.
I am unsure about Orcs.

Elves are not 'Fey Folk', unless I am not very much mistaken 'Fey Folk' are Celtic. Elves (Álfar) are from Nordic Mythology. Tolkien's Elves are not too unlike the Álfar of Scandinavian Folklore though they have more character.

Elves are too big to live in 'Gardens'.....they are humansize. Álfheimr (Anglicised to Elf-Home or Elphame) is their home.

[Beowulf]

The people of this thread really have done their homwork. I don't think that anyone has posted the line which mentions the Orcnéas though.

"eotenas ond ylfe ond orcneas swylce gigantas" - "Jotnar (Correct Norse name for Giants) and Elves and Orc-Corpse, such giants"

[Marky Lazer]

'... the word is as far as I am concerned actually derived from Old English orc 'demon', but only because of its phonetic suitablility...' - The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien 144.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by Marky Lazer

'... the word is as far as I am concerned actually derived from Old English orc 'demon', but only because of its phonetic suitablility...' - The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien 144.

Well done. I think that settles where he got Orc from. Has anyone read Tolkien's masterful 'Beowulf: The Monsters and The Critics'?

[JWREmmett]

Tolkien's Hobbits are inspired by E.A. Wyke-Smith's "The Marvellous Land of Snergs".... if you visit Amazon.com, check out the cover.

[Trimac20]

Many of the creatures Tolkien supposedly 'invented' were pre-existing mythological characters he just re-named. Hobbits are just small people, 'Gollum' is from Golem, the Ring-wraiths are dragons.etc

[Beowulf]

Prf. Tolkien never claimed otherwise. However it is debatable whether Gollum was named after a Golem or not. He is certainly nothing like the Golem of Jewish Mythology.

[Marky Lazer]

Agreed with Beowulf. The '' around invented makes it look like you accuse Tolkien of being a common thief.

[Kimbo]

An Interesting thread. I don't know that anyone except Tolkien would know all the answers to where he conceived his names and characters.

[River Boy]

Can't remember who - so probably not that helpful - but there was someone recently claiming that Tolkien's interpretation of orc was a mis-translation, which related to an impression that Anglo-Saxon people called Vikings 'orcs' that turned out not to be the case.

[Elthir]

Tolkien himself noted...

'the word is, as far as I am concerned, actually derived from Old english orc 'demon', but only because of its phonetic suitability.' JRRT, Letters

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

Tolkien decided to use the word to to signify a larger species of goblin (goblin being another one of those all-purpose words that has narrowed in meaning over the years) with the specific characteristics every Tolkien fan has come to know.

Tolkien's early use of the words orc and goblin is somewhat hazy, but in the end he decided that orc was an actual Westron word (not English), with 'goblin' sometimes used as an English translation (and very often used in translation in The Hobbit).

The result of this decision (published by JRRT himself in later versions of The Hobbit), is that there is no intended difference whatsoever between an orc and a 'goblin'... nor more than there would be between a hund and a 'dog' in an English translation of a German text.

In the author-published sources there are large goblins in any case -- Saruman's Uruks are once described as 'goblin-soldiers' in The Lord of the Rings for instance -- and Azog, is described as both an orc and a 'goblin' in the books.

Size was not a distinction, which again, one would expect, as the ultimate relationship between these words is one of translation in any case.