Celts in America Before Columbus?

[Esioul]

Yes, brrrrr, and too far away from home for them, too. I think they just died out.

[nati]

There are stories of a North Dakoda tribe thar had blue eyes. lewis and clark described a fair skun tribe in their journals unfortunatly the tribe was wiped out by small pox arrounf 1840

[Wiglaf]

There is a story of St. Brendan(sp?) who sailed to American in a leather hide boat common to Ireland. It was proved that such a boat could make the journey. Vikings, the land bridge, and people sailing across the Bering Strait are the only ones with archeological evidence as far as I know.

[Happy Joe]

There are also numerous alleged examples of Ogham, here in NA, and a few underground chambers that could be due to Celtic influence (from their construction and orientation (no age information established/available).
Naturally it is considered "fringe" by the entrenched authorities...

Enjoy!

[Urlik]

there have been some recent finds of European style flint spear heads in North America that have been dated back to the last ice age.

it is quite possible that neolithic hunters crossed the ice bridge over the North Atlantic (apparently it reached down as far as France) and it would have been possible for them to hunt seals along the way (in the same way that Eskimos still do on the ice flows today)

[Drachir]

Originally Posted by kyektulu

Im not suprised its too cold.

Actually historical accounts describe attacks on the Viking settlements by people referred to as Scraelings, but who were probably native Canadians. And as for cold, are we forgetting that the Vikings colonized Iceland?

[Peter Graham]

Good point, Drachir.

There is no doubt that the Vikings did have a colony in Canada. It's on Newfoundland, at a place called L'Anse Aux Meadows (I think). The norse sagas talk about it and credit its discovery to "Lucky" Leif Eriksson. Strangely, they called it "Vinland", which (as the name suggests) means "land of the vines" - not a very good description of anywhere exposed to the Labrador current, so perhaps they also visited other places further south.

I'm not sure about the Prince Madoc thing. If he had gone lock, stock and barrel, you'd expect to see at least some reference to it in the ancient Welsh poems and, as far as I'm aware, there aren't any. And how on earth would he have got so many people there? It all smacks of the whole "lost tribe" mythology, which right up to the 16th Century had people believing that somewhere in deepest Africa was an undiscovered nation of lost Christians, led by a chap called Prester John.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if small groups of Welsh and Irish monks in their coracles had been to North America pre-Columbus. When Columbus set off, European fishing boats were already exploiting the Grand Banks - I believe that there is a pre-Columbus Dutch map of that vague area with the Grand Banks marked as "the sea of the English".

My guess is that Columbus knew about America, but didn't know how far south it stretched. I think he was hoping to sail round the bottom and then find more exciting places like India or China!

Regards,

Peter

[Drachir]

Over the years there has been a good deal of speculation regarding the discovery of the Americas prior to Columbus. Certainly the Vikings beat him to it and some like Norwegian writer Thor Heyerdahl believed that the ancient Egyptians may have made it first. And then there are the numerous "proofs" in the link submitted by Kyektulu. The problem with such postulations is that they are based on very dubious evidence and thus have been rejected by most historians and archaeologists.

One point that is frequently overlooked is that this is a sort of "Who cares?" debate. If you discover something (as in the case of the Vikings - or maybe even the Celts, Egyptians, Romans, Carthaginians, Chinese, etc.), but you don't tell anyone about it then the discovery is useless. And that is why Columbus gets the credit. After blundering into the Americas by mistake he sailed back to Spain and claimed "Mission accomplished." He was about as accurate as Mr. Bush by the way.

[Peter Graham]

I've just watched an old documentary called Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, and, rather worryingly, it appears that we have all been barking up the wrong tree. It transpires that the Americans actually discovered us a couple of hundred years before Columbus was even born.

I am going out into my garden tonight to look for archaeological evidence of 12th Century Hershey bars and early medieval "fanny packs".....

Regards,

Peter

[Yatista]

I'm halfway through a book, "America BC" by Barry Fell which makes a pretty strong case for Celts (and others) visiting and staying in the Americas around 500 BC. Printed in 1975, might be hard to find, but very interesting. Just googled it, still available on Amazon. Lots of other references on the subject as well.

[jojajihisc]

Originally Posted by Esioul

I wouldn't take all those ideas too seriously- at elast, take them with a pinch of salt. The evidence seems to be limited. I have heard of Vikings going to Canda, and I concede that may have been possible.

I was going to say something similar albeit facetiously. Afterall, those political boundaries are not quite that old.

[Sparrow]

There's also a legend of a Chinese explorer touching ground in California... centuries before the birth of Christ.

http://www.inn-california.com/articl...alifornia.html

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Drachir

One point that is frequently overlooked is that this is a sort of "Who cares?" debate. If you discover something (as in the case of the Vikings - or maybe even the Celts, Egyptians, Romans, Carthaginians, Chinese, etc.), but you don't tell anyone about it then the discovery is useless.

The Church of the Latter Day Saints believe that Joseph Smith dug up some ancient Gold plates in 1823 on a hill in New York, inside a buried box. Smith said they had been protected there for centuries by the Angel Moroni, and that they were written in Reformed Egyptian hieroglyphs.

I'd say that would be fairly conclusive evidence, if it only weren't for the fact that he gave the plates back to the Angel after he copied them into the Book of Mormon.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

There's also a legend of a Chinese explorer touching ground in California... centuries before the birth of Christ.

I can find it easier to believe that one. But ever finding any real evidence is very unlikely.

[Drachir]

Originally Posted by Dave

The Church of the Latter Day Saints believe that Joseph Smith dug up some ancient Gold plates in 1823 on a hill in New York, inside a buried box. Smith said they had been protected there for centuries by the Angel Moroni, and that they were written in Reformed Egyptian hieroglyphs.

I'd say that would be fairly conclusive evidence, if it only weren't for the fact that he gave the plates back to the Angel after he copied them into the Book of Mormon.

Well, the angel wasn't called Moroni for nothing.