[Stalker]

Originally Posted by FelineEyes

I agree that a reformation of some kind would have happened regardless of what Luther did or didn't do. However, the simplest answer to your question Animaiden is that there would be no Lutherans.
And you and I would be Catholics.

Or Lutherans would now be called Zwinglians and would have some difference in doctrine if compared to Lutherans. Zwingli started his propagation of Church reform even before Luther and had a large support in Southern Germany. Or else, if Zwingli had failed, then Calvin for sure would have tried to fill in the vacant place by his preaching.

Originally Posted by FelineEyes

And it seems to me that Calvinism was inspired by Lutheranism and if the Lutherans hadn't started the Reformation, maybe John Calvin would have done anything if Luther hadn't started it. And maybe not. Moreover, if Luther and Calvin hadn't done anything at all, it would have taken a lot longer for the Catholic Church to reform, but they wouldn't have had any reason to.
On the other hand, it would have prevented the 30 Years War, the massarce of the Hugenots in France, and save thousands of other lives.

Don't forget that before St. Bartholomew's night in Paris in August 1571, hugenots slaughtered thousands of catholics in pogroms in Southern France. So, they weren't mere sheep either.

Originally Posted by FelineEyes

And to think: if the Catholic Church reformed on it's own and prevented the reformation, they maybe the KKK wouldn't have any trouble with them.
And then again, maybe they would.
Any thoughts on this?

Interesting point of view, and it needs further consoderation. To reform on its own, Catholic Church needed a huge kick in the ass. Actually that's what had happened. Since then Catholic Church has changed, very-very slowly but anyway, it has changed. Can that be called a reform? Yes, in a way.