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Old 29th September 2011, 09:00 PM   #301 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

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Originally Posted by KiwiBird View Post
Well, in any case it's past time Jon visits the tombs beneath Winterfell.
As such Bolton's summons, and his 'death' comes in handy in many ways.
Or it's just wishful thinking, not wanting Jon to be dead.
I think you're right, and Jon will go to the tombs and... Wake the dragon

How many times have we heard Viserys use that phrase? I'm betting that there is a sleeping dragon under Winterfell (the reason for the hot springs) and that Jon will wake it.

I'm apparently going for the Guiness Book of World Records record for most crackpot theories relating to one book series

Thanks for the inspiration Kiwibird
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Old 4th October 2011, 02:26 PM   #302 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

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I think you're right, and Jon will go to the tombs and... Wake the dragon

How many times have we heard Viserys use that phrase? I'm betting that there is a sleeping dragon under Winterfell (the reason for the hot springs) and that Jon will wake it.
My theory: Jon is the stone dragon (like all the Targaryens are dragons), and the event of his murder here is the prophesied "awakening". The smoke from the knife wound is the same as the smoke that pours out of the spear wound that Drogon takes back in the pit in Mereen.

Like when Daenerys entered the fire out on the Dothraki plains and did not die, but was reborn (awakened) under all the signs of the prophesy, Jon meets all the signs for his own rebirth/awakening (star, salt, etc.).

This fits with R+L=J, which I think makes a lot more sense than Ned having a bastard on any random girl during the war (why try so hard to hide the identity of the mother? Because Robert has already proven that he is willing to kill Targaryen children.)

It also fits with Mel's earlier visions that Stannis had to awaken the dragon - it was his actions in coming to the wall that led directly to the awakening of Jon the dragon.
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Old 4th October 2011, 08:53 PM   #303 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

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My theory: Jon is the stone dragon (like all the Targaryens are dragons), and the event of his murder here is the prophesied "awakening". The smoke from the knife wound is the same as the smoke that pours out of the spear wound that Drogon takes back in the pit in Mereen.

Like when Daenerys entered the fire out on the Dothraki plains and did not die, but was reborn (awakened) under all the signs of the prophesy, Jon meets all the signs for his own rebirth/awakening (star, salt, etc.).

This fits with R+L=J, which I think makes a lot more sense than Ned having a bastard on any random girl during the war (why try so hard to hide the identity of the mother? Because Robert has already proven that he is willing to kill Targaryen children.)

It also fits with Mel's earlier visions that Stannis had to awaken the dragon - it was his actions in coming to the wall that led directly to the awakening of Jon the dragon.
Welcome Tywin. Excellent first post. What you say makes sense, although we'll need to see how the Jon "situation" turns out before we know :0
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Old 5th October 2011, 04:55 AM   #304 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

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Originally Posted by Tywin View Post
My theory: Jon is the stone dragon (like all the Targaryens are dragons), and the event of his murder here is the prophesied "awakening". The smoke from the knife wound is the same as the smoke that pours out of the spear wound that Drogon takes back in the pit in Mereen.

Like when Daenerys entered the fire out on the Dothraki plains and did not die, but was reborn (awakened) under all the signs of the prophesy, Jon meets all the signs for his own rebirth/awakening (star, salt, etc.).

This fits with R+L=J, which I think makes a lot more sense than Ned having a bastard on any random girl during the war (why try so hard to hide the identity of the mother? Because Robert has already proven that he is willing to kill Targaryen children.)

It also fits with Mel's earlier visions that Stannis had to awaken the dragon - it was his actions in coming to the wall that led directly to the awakening of Jon the dragon.
Excellent theory! I think this idea works better (stone dragon being awakened) than a live dragon living in the cellars of Winterfell. Live dragons do have to eat, after all, and if Dany's dragons are any indication they eat quite a lot!
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Old 5th October 2011, 04:03 PM   #305 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

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Excellent theory! I think this idea works better (stone dragon being awakened) than a live dragon living in the cellars of Winterfell. Live dragons do have to eat, after all, and if Dany's dragons are any indication they eat quite a lot!
Perhaps dragons hibernate, or perhaps go into a state of inactivity when there isn't enough magic around. Maybe being close enough to the North and Weirwoods gave the dragon enough energy not to die but but not enough to be active. Of course though, one would think that we'd have heard of a dragon living in or under Winterfell. Certainly Old nan would have a story, or a singer.
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Old 5th October 2011, 07:03 PM   #306 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

That's the really clever thing about Old Nan. From an author's point of view he can instantly build a backstory to anything he wants by having one of his characters recall "an old story that Nan once told them"

And thanks for the welcome, I'm glad to be here.
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Old 5th October 2011, 09:07 PM   #307 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

Melissandre is close at hand to feed Jon's body to the flames and awaken a dragon. Just trying to keep up with the latest theory.
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Old 5th October 2011, 09:31 PM   #308 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

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Melissandre is close at hand to feed Jon's body to the flames and awaken a dragon. Just trying to keep up with the latest theory.
I'm fine with that just so long as she isn't resurrecting him.
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Old 5th October 2011, 11:49 PM   #309 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

One point of interest with this theory:

Daenerys = doesn't burn (except for her hair), both in the fire when she hatched the eggs and from Drogon's fire.

Quentyn Martell = burned to a crisp by dragon fire

Jon Snow = badly burned fighting the white walker in Lord Mormont's quarters. His hand stiffens up every other page during the Jon chapters.

Bottom line: Jon is flammable.
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Old 6th October 2011, 01:17 AM   #310 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

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Originally Posted by Tywin View Post
One point of interest with this theory:

Daenerys = doesn't burn (except for her hair), both in the fire when she hatched the eggs and from Drogon's fire.

Quentyn Martell = burned to a crisp by dragon fire

Jon Snow = badly burned fighting the white walker in Lord Mormont's quarters. His hand stiffens up every other page during the Jon chapters.

Bottom line: Jon is flammable.
That's an interesting point about Jon being "flammable" Assuming R=L=J then half Targ blood deosn't do you a whole lot of good with fire.

Slightly off topic, does anyone know if anyone other than a targ has ridden a dragon? I can't remember any. Also, No person has ever ridden two. Just in case anyone was wondering and didn't remember that little tidbit that GRRM threw out in ADWD
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Old 6th October 2011, 07:50 AM   #311 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

I'm pretty positive only a Targ has ridden a Dragon
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Old 6th October 2011, 05:05 PM   #312 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

Didn't the Valyrians hold such power because of their dragons? I may be wrong but I beleive the Targaryens were right at the western edge of the empire near Westeros so I would assume not every dragon was rode by a Targaryen in this period.
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Old 6th October 2011, 07:05 PM   #313 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

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Didn't the Valyrians hold such power because of their dragons? I may be wrong but I beleive the Targaryens were right at the western edge of the empire near Westeros so I would assume not every dragon was rode by a Targaryen in this period.
I believe this is correct. The Targaryens were just the only ones to move away (and they took their dragons with them) before the Doom and therefore became the only survivors. I'm pretty sure that's right.
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Old 7th October 2011, 08:26 PM   #314 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

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I believe this is correct. The Targaryens were just the only ones to move away (and they took their dragons with them) before the Doom and therefore became the only survivors. I'm pretty sure that's right.
I'm not sure that the timeline for the Doom of Valyria and the arrival of the Targaryens in Westeros is laid chronologically anywhere in the books. So we don't know if they fled the Doom itself, or established themselves in Westeros and then the Doom happened back in Valyria or what. (anyone with the books in front of them feel free to straighten me out here if I'm wrong)

We do know that there were 'Valyrians' left in other places after the Doom, notably Volantis, but we don't know if they had any dragons or not after the Doom, or for how long. If they did have them, they were gone by the time that Volantis tried to rule the remnants of Valyria's empire.
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Old 8th October 2011, 06:29 AM   #315 (permalink)
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Re: Jon Snow

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So we don't know if they fled the Doom itself, or established themselves in Westeros and then the Doom happened back in Valyria or what.
Sorry I wasn't clear. I was trying to say that the Targaryens moved away and established themselves and then the Doom happened and that's why they kept their dragons while everyone else lost theirs. I.e. they weren't fleeing the Doom but they just happened to luck into moving to Dragonstone at the right time.

Of course, I'm working from memory here so I could be off as well.
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