The Dragon Has Three Heads

[Jaqen]

Well sorry, it's no big deal. I don't care who gets credit for it.

Anyways, I'm now convinced that the three heads are Danys, Aegon, and Tyrion. But we'll see.

[Stellar]

OK Hi. I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I claim newbie immunity and am posting anyway 'cause this is the thread I joined the forum for (all 18 pages of it... man that was long)

ANYWAY! A few things

Jaqen H'Ghar: Is a faceless man, servant of the many-faced god of death (duh.) The only reason he would be in Oldtown is to assasinate someone. The only reason he's sitting around as Pate is because he's biding his time and gathering information to perform another flawless assassination.

I get the impression the Faceless Men are opportunist/perfectionist killers. They'll take as much time as they need, gather as much information as they need to eliminate their target at the most opportune moment, and get out alive. Stealing the key to the Citadel could be part of that. You'd have far more opportunities to kill someone if you could go wherever you liked, and far fewer if you were just a pig boy.

Faceless Men also have a definite target, with a name. So Jaqen isn't defending anyone against unnamed enemies. He's there to kill a single individual. My bet is Sam, but that's another thought for another day.

This is actually relevant to the dragon's three heads (surprise On Topic!). I don't think Arya is one of the three heads, because she's training as a novice of the Many-Faced God, a worshipper of the bringer of death.

R'hllor is the god of life, fire and shadow. The Unnamed Other is the god of death (and presumably ice, if you follow the dichotomy) So in the battle between Westeros and the Others, the lines could be drawn up like this:

World of Men (Westeros)=Life=Fire=Dany+Dragons with Fire=Life=R'hllor
World Beyond=Death=Ice=The Others with Death=Ice=The Unnamed Other

Arya is training as a novice of the Many Faced God of Death, and by extension, the Unnamed Other. That means that, unless she leaves the Faceless Men soon, she, at the very least, will not ride a dragon for the side that opposes the god she serves. If she doesn't leave the Faceless Men, she'll probably do nothing, or be sent to assassinate someone.

Of course, I could also be extrapolating too far. Or, you know, she'll leave the Faceless Men. In which case, I still doubt that she'd be timely enough to earn a place as a dragon rider.

On the other hand though, that does link back to a question asked earlier in the thread (by Aegon the Conqueror, I think?) about who would send Jaqen to Oldtown as an assassin: If the Faceless Men worship the Unnamed Other as part of the Many Faced God, then it is not unreasonable to assume they have some contact with the Evil Overlord who is directing the Others forces in service of death/ice/the Unnamed Other?/etc

OH! ALSO! Aegon is dead. The only reason we're being led to believe otherwise is because a bunch of fake Aegons are going to show up and try to convince Dany (and us) that they're the real deal, in order to get a dragon. And telling us that Aegon is dead would soundly kill the fun. My bet is the first imposter to show up and claim his 'inheritance' will be Aurane Waters. He looks a little like Rhaegar and has conveniently lived most of his life as the bastard son of a house sworn to Dragonstone. So he'll show up, claim he was taken to Dragonstone with Viserys, but hidden away with house Velaryon for safe keeping. And Dany will believe him, because everyone who could prove otherwise is dead, and because he brought her a fleet. And chaos will ensue.

Also, Jon being a head of the dragon will depend on in what order Dany tackles her enemies. I have total faith in R+L=J. But even so, if Dany chooses to conquer Westeros first, and asks Jon to help her, I think he'll turn her down. He chose his vows over the only family he's ever known, so why abandon them for family he never knew?

However if she chooses to take down the Others first, Jon could conceivably become a dragon rider in that battle, and then be bound by conflicting oaths once it comes time for Dany to take Westeros. Or by that stage, Westeros could be torn up that there's no feasible opposition left (Jaime kills Cersei, the Dornish hand over Myrcella, the riverlords, north and vale bend the knee, the Tyrells are the only ones who put up a fight for Tommen and Margaery, but one dragon is more than enough to quell them) in which case Jon will be dragon rider and warg and Man of the Knight's Watch all at once.

And that was a long post.

[viZion]

Originally Posted by Stellar

OH! ALSO! Aegon is dead. The only reason we're being led to believe otherwise is because a bunch of fake Aegons are going to show up and try to convince Dany (and us) that they're the real deal, in order to get a dragon. And telling us that Aegon is dead would soundly kill the fun. My bet is the first imposter to show up and claim his 'inheritance' will be Aurane Waters. He looks a little like Rhaegar and has conveniently lived most of his life as the bastard son of a house sworn to Dragonstone. So he'll show up, claim he was taken to Dragonstone with Viserys, but hidden away with house Velaryon for safe keeping. And Dany will believe him, because everyone who could prove otherwise is dead, and because he brought her a fleet. And chaos will ensue.

Thank you very much! Excellent points. This is a very believable and likely situation. I just read Cersei's chapter last night where she gets a good look at Aurane Waters. My very first thought was, "Oh no! The people on the forum are right; Aegon is alive!" Then I calmed down and realized that it pretty much couldn't be true but it made me wonder what GRRM will end up using Aurane for. The way he appears to Cersei makes it seem like he's destined to become a very major character. Plus, this theory is far better than baby Aegon being hid away for years and then suddenly appearing right before he's needed to go ride a dragon.

[Lady of Winterfell]

I like this theory of fake Aegon's coming forward to Dany. Hadn't thought of it before, but it would seem to fit into the story and the 'hints' that GRRM has given in interviews. I also don't believe that baby Aegon is alive, so I like this idea much better.

[DeannaBelle]

While I like the Dany/Jon/Tyrioin idea a lot, and before that, I was fond of the Dany/Jon/Robert-bastard-child combo, I think there should be a female in the mix.

Someone told Dany she wold never bear another living child (let's hope she bears no "undead" children - ugh!). In that case, there would need to be another woman to make babies - um - heirs. However, maybe whoever said that to Dany was BSing.

[DeannaBelle]

Originally Posted by Dolorous Edd

Danny

/\
Jon Tyrion

Is my best guess. Or any variation of the three, but Danny as TPTWP seems more likely after AFFC. I'm also very partial to Culhwch's (i think, soz if it was someone else) wild fancy that Tyrion is Aery's bastard child on Joanna lannister and that Tywin slept with Aery's wife in retaliation, making danny bastard born as well. There's a symmetry to it that i like, plus the added bonus that they're not all 3 off their trolleys.

That's so crazy I like it. But only as amusement.

Remember how according to that Martell guy (I am very good with names, you see) it was rumored that Tyrion had a tail? (I think maybe it was even more of an outrageous rumor - like he had scales or something) Anyway, that's the ONLY thing I can think of to indicate that Tyrion is actually a Targ, given that we know about the Targ's affinity for weird science/magic. But... Tyrion is just a "small person."

Lol, I haven't heard the phrase "off their trolleys" in a long time. Love it. reminds me if Mr. Rogers "trolley" went crazy or something.

[Charming Serpent]

*sighs* Aegon is dead. Tyrion is not a Targaryen. The 3 heads of the Dragon are symbolic of the Targaryens, not literal. As long as Dany lives, the Targs are represented and the other 3 heads can be anyone of her choosing or the dragons i would suppose too.

My opinion ... Dany is most assuredly TPTWP/AA reborn. She dreamnt of herself riding dragons and burning an army of ice. She goes on to think how this feels right and that is what she was born to do.

Lightbringer .... The sword itself could still be around or her dragons could be considered the sword of flame.

3 heads .... Dany, Jon and Tyrion. Tyrion has spoken about riding Dragons and his dreams etc... GRRM identifies with Tyrion and so I believe he will let his wish come true. Jon, because, well c'mon, he is practically the main character in this book. Besides, he seems to be half targ and commands the wall so he will be at the forefront of the battle vs the others.

Conjecture .... Ok, ok, ok. I will conceed that Tyrion could be a canidate for a possible Targ, but I find it highly unlikely. I know the theories and there is some plausibility in them, but I just don't think so. The Golden Company, imo, has a big surprise in store for us. They were the last to have the Targaryen Valyrian sword called Blackflame. Maybe they have something else hidden as well?? The Daynes know or have something that is key in this story, I just know it.

[Tysha]

First, Aegon is alive
Second, why would anyone claim that he is Aegon when everybody knows that Aegon is dead? So why not fake Rhaenys's or any fake dead Targeryen?

The only one one who can think about Aegon being alive is the reader(!) and Dany who saw the prophecy: Rhaegar looking at her, showing her baby Aegon and telling her - you have to find ANOTHER one.

[Charming Serpent]

Yeah, Rhaegar looked up, but Dany wasn't sure if he was looking at her or not. She saw Rhaegar with his infant and his wife. Rhaegar thought his son was TPTWP and Aemon thought it Rhaegar before that, but both were proven wrong when baby Aegon was killed as was Rhaegar. Aemon says as much in FFC. He goes on to explain how Septon Barth had it right a thousand years ago. How they had been looking for a prince and not a princess. He then says the error was in the translation.

Aegon still dead.

*points to avatar* Goddamn, that is a pretty snake.

[Stellar]

I don't think Aegon is alive for the simple fact that any ruse to fake his death (and keep him hidden for 16 years on the off chance a girl a continent away managed to hatch some dragons) would have to have been so ridiculously convoluted that only Littlefinger, Varys or maybe Doran are smart enough to pull it off convincingly. Littlefinger wasn't in King's Landing at the time, and Varys and Doran have put all their energy into Dany, which they wouldn't have done if they had Aegon in the wings. Logical conclusion: He really is dead. But there are just enough hints in place for an attempt to convince Dany and the reader that he isn't, i.e. Red Herring.

[Tysha]

Originally Posted by Charming Serpent

Yeah, Rhaegar looked up, but Dany wasn't sure if he was looking at her or not. She saw Rhaegar with his infant and his wife. Rhaegar thought his son was TPTWP and Aemon thought it Rhaegar before that, but both were proven wrong when baby Aegon was killed as was Rhaegar. Aemon says as much in FFC. He goes on to explain how Septon Barth had it right a thousand years ago. How they had been looking for a prince and not a princess. He then says the error was in the translation.

Aegon still dead.

*points to avatar* Goddamn, that is a pretty snake.

It's not just as someone remembering what really happened years ago, it's a PROPHECY in the House Of The Undying!
What kinda prophecy is that if it's just shows you "a day in Rhaegar's life"?

Stellar: Aegon's father and Aegon's mother would like him to be alive, because they are his parents, AND because Rhaegar thought he is PTWP - so it was important to keep him safe. You don't have to be a very smart man to make this "baby changing " (Jon made it with Gili's babe and Robb said that it's not safe to keep all your gold in one purse...so..)

“There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. “The dragon has three heads.”
What about "one more" and "three heads"?
And if all those hints are just a Red Herring (for US), how exactly fake Aegons are going to show up?

[Charming Serpent]

Hmm, I do not think it was a Prophecy. A prophecy would entail something in the future happening i.e. the words the undying spoke to her. Do not forget that the vision right before that was of her father talking to his pyromancer hand and telling him Robert will be king of only ashes. THAT was past. Rhaegar's scene to me was just what it was; a moment shown to us that happened where we find out that someone knows about what is going to happen (Hence his reference to the song of ice and fire) He had his little girl and now had Aegon, whom he thought was TPTWP. He said there must be one more due to the fact that, obviously, the dragon has 3 heads. I think he was speaking of a potential 3rd child. (Maybe he was waiting for Dany to be born)

The only prophecies that were actual prophecies were the 3 betrayals, 3 mounts and 3 fires that must be lit. The rest of the things she saw before hearing those were just visions of the past etc...

[Tysha]

When I've said "prophecy" I meant that this is something meaningful, something that is more complicated than just a picture she sees. ( and there was a Red Wedding prophecy..) And I think Rhaegar, who thought that Aegon is the PTWP, had to protect him (It's easy to switch a baby so no one will notice, cos all the babies look very similar..)

[Charming Serpent]

Yeah, the protection theory could find some credible evidence, but I just can't shake a few things off about this whole Aegon thingy.

If the Dragon has to have 3 heads and Rhaegar believes his son to be the PTWP then why just switch him, but let his daughter stay in KL? I mean, I'm sure there could be reasons, but that doesn't sound like the Rhaegar I read about.

Oh, and Jaimies' dream where he is under the Rock. He faces his sworn brothers who died and Rhaegar. Rhaegar shone with an angry light and said I left my children in your protection. Granted, it could just be a fever dream, but if it wasn't then Aegon is dead as Ned.

Damn this Aegon stuff gives me fits and headaches!!

[Charming Serpent]

Oh, I just saw another forum's comment on something I was reading about the Dayne's and though it is not about them it is about the 3 heads of the dragon.

Just this one lilttle piece that I and maybe others overlooked. Whether it has any meaning I will leave to you.

Tyrion, Dany and Jon's mothers all died in childbirth.

By itself, it might mean nothing, but what a coincidence in any case!