The Dragon Has Three Heads

[Tysha]

Originally Posted by Aegon the Unworthy

I get the idea on the similarity between Alleras and Sarellas stories. I get your point. Really I do,.

Aegon, honey, I'm so glad you've understood my point of view
! (And look I'm ignoring the "disagree" part lol )

Originally Posted by Aegon the Unworthy

If you want to tell me that Alleras is a cover both Aegon and Sarella use in Oldtown I could accept that. You know Aegon is only seen in a library with his cowl up reading books in the middle of the night and Sarella actually goes to classes....Im not championing that idea because its slightly ridiculous..

Gosh no! You see, unfortunately, my theories have to be reasonable and logical, so I just can't permit theories more weird than "Aegon kidnapped by aliens"

Originally Posted by Aegon the Unworthy

I speak of an enemy. I do. There is one out there that we havent met yet. There is a force driving the Others that is behind everything. Someone is pulling the strings. Someone is making the calls to try and kill the Old Bear in the first book, or to drive the wildlings south to break the wall (which due to wards on the wall the Others can not do). They are acting with an intelligent malevolence that you cant deny. I assume that everything Aemon, Rhaegar, or even yourself know from prophecies this Other knows. This malevolent person would know that its the three heads of the Dragon which were gonna cause it problems right? It would suspect much like we do that the three heads are tied into the Targ line. Right? It knows of only two Targs out there....It has to assume those two Targs will be two of the three heads. Why not kill one of them to ensure less of problem swallowing Westeros, regardless of the physical infirmities of Aemon he is possibly one of the people that will stop this. Due to the magic wards on the wall Aemon was protected from most of Its magics but when Aemon takes ship to head south he is vulnerable. It may not be able to send wights south that far but It can hire an assassin. So voila Jaqen is hired and sent south to establish an identity and use that to kill an unsuspecting Aemon. You have to realize we have no idea when the Prologue happened except it was before Sam got there. It could be days or weeks.

First, that theory is one big speculation! We have absolutely no information about Whites and their Evil God! And the idea of GREAT EVIL GOD with his Whites hiring an assassin to kill a man (even a Targeryen) well, it's just absurd!

Originally Posted by Aegon the Unworthy

Wait....who do you think sent Jaqen? Who knows about your Aegon is Alleras idea and wants him dead? The Lannisters obviously arent up to snuff. The Queen of Thorns? Illyrio and Varys we believe are Targ supporters....who do you think is trying to kill him if not a faceless entity behind the Other?

Well, as I've said BEFORE(!) I think Jaqen is there to PROTECT Aegon/Alleras and to kill his enemies if need be (maybe he has been sent by Oberyn for that purpose)
If he is to kill Alleras, I think he would done it long time ago!

Originally Posted by Aegon the Unworthy

Do I buy that? Nah. I think Jaqen is there for something to do with the return of magic and spying on Marwan or even Alleras. He seems more interested in learning in this role. But I could be wrong.

Learning?! A Faceless man came to the Citadel for advanced study?! That's nuts!
Spying?! But Marwyn and Alleras know he is a Faceless Man (they are with Pate in the room, discuss secrets about dragons! Do you think Marwyn and Alleras would discuss it with some stupid Pig boy?!)
In conclusion, I think the most important thing in this answer, is your choosing between Alleras=Sarella and Alleras=Aegon... What would that be I wonder? Oh, whatever.. I WILL find some supporters eventually... I hope...

[Tysha]

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

It is funny how people take only parts that support their theory while ignoring everything else. But I am doing the same so what about that?

I will try not to do that, but it's hard

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

Almost everything that Martin wrote has some usage especially when he describes something big such as huge green sphinxes on Citadell entrance.

Or.. when Martin is trying to draw you a more colourful picture or even to confuse you with a lot of little details.

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

Acording to Pate's chapter Alleras was really suprised when he heard about dragons. Then boom-paff here comes Leo Tyrell and tells you that Marwin believes in dragons and that glass candle is burning in his (Marwins) quarters.

Oh, thank you for pointing this out! Because he is so NOT surprised! look at this (the summary of the first part of the prologue)":
Alleras's fiends:"DRAGONS!"
Alleras: "Throw the apple."
Alleras's friends: "Oh my god! There are dragons!"
Alleras: "Throw the apple."
Alleras's friends: Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god!! DRAGONS! And a Dragon-glass candle is BURNING! (Did I say oh my god?)
Alleras: "Are you going to eat that apple?"
He sounds like he knows MUCH more of this than his friends... very mysterious.. don't you think?
Moreover, he is giving them (unexcited and unsurprised ) short Targaryen hystory lesson! (He tells them about - the dragon has three heads, who is who's son and daughter and etc" It's not a solid proof but it's certainly supports my theory

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

While we are there... Acolytes have only one chance to lit that candle, and that is when they have finished their chain and already become maesters (right before they get lord to serve). Reason why "Jaquen" is there could be this : Arya have heard blinky(spelling?) and fat man arguing about something in Braavos. Perhaps fat man is "Jaquen". "Jaquen" took key that opens all Citadell doors from Pate?It is posible they were talking about taking some rare books from Citadell. Books about others and dragons.

Jaqen is a Faceless Man! Looks like you and your friend Aegon the Unworthy seem to forget that part in his biography. He is very costly assassin, he's job must be VERY important! Who is going to pay a huge amount of money for information about dragons and others from the Citadel? And why to sent a Facelsess man to do such a simple job as gathering information? He is an ASASSIN - his job is KILLING or maybe protecting someone important=KILLING his enemies.

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

1. She loves that town(AFFC "Captain of guards", Tienna)Perhaps Oberyn meet her mother there (Oldtowh is great merchant town, house Hightower is rich house,protectors of Citadell, that got their money trading)

I will ignore that one 'cos it's really funny... Goerge Martin writing a whole prologue about a bastard girl who went for shopping in a lovely Oldtown... hmm..

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

2. She was forging her's chain when war started (little game of hers. Martell same chapter).

Alleras came to the Citadel ONE year before the "prologue time", AFTER the war has already began.

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

3. Hightowers are rich as Lannisters (Sam's last chapter, AFFC). And guess who's sending reports about them to Martell's.
4. She is at Marwin's room for a reason. Marwin is teaching "higher secrets", magic in looking for a better word. (his staff and mask are valyrian steel! apendix, AFFC) Who knows better about dragon's then man who teaches magic at Citadell? And when you are Oberyn's daughter who is schemming to get back Targaryens on throne you need to know all that is to know about dragons, right? And I guess that Marwin doesn't have much students.

Well, about "reports to Martell" and "learning secrets" - that makes SOME sense (for a change ) But it's so unimportant and boring...why would George Martin highlight Alleras, his looks, and all the important people around him (Marwyn, Jaqen,Sam) if it's just Sarella that came to learn, make reports for Martels or just shopping...

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

About Elya: she is one year younger than Oberyn. (Martell to Obarra AFFC) Even if they were twins it doesn't prove that they look alike.

Well, she doesn't have to look like Oberyn, BUT she is a SALTY DORNISH girl! Take an avarage arab family (that resemble an avarage dornish family) - mother, father, children, grandchildren.. what the change for one of them to be pale? well.. there is some, like 0.0000001%. Of course, they are not twins, but features like skin colour, eyes, hair are racial traits!

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

How is that for a theory?

Thank you, I've really enjoyed to disprove it

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Assassin bodyguards??...now yer just being silly. Oberyn manipulating things from beyond the grave? Hee....

I always thought the Dornes were closer to Spaniards in coloring. But the coloring issue still stands....theres a difference between a white/black combo and a white/olive combo, so much so that you just wouldnt use that as a cover story, even if it could possibly be true because that would invite scrutiny. But at this point Im gonna let that point go....so we agree to disagree.

Isnt Pate Marwan's apprentice. Pig Boy Pate. There is absolutely no reason to keep him out if so. He's Marwans scribe, errand-boy and general flunky.....of course he's there. But that is a good catch as being odd if he's not Marwan's apprentice...

I do want to add I enjoyed this hypothesis. Really really do. Just dont agree with it.

Oh and I officially have decided Alleras=Sarella. Nothing more. I just bounce around a lot.....cause Im on meds or something.

[Tysha]

Originally Posted by Aegon the Unworthy

Assassin bodyguards??...now yer just being silly. Oberyn manipulating things from beyond the grave? Hee.....

Oberyn hired him when he was alive (when he has sent Aegon/Alleras to the Citadel)!

Well, I'm a peaceful person (actually a nurse lol) and not a Hannibal at all... and definitely without Elephants...

Thanks for that LONG arguing, that was fun It is really fun to talk to people who've read those great books, to see what they think!

[Boaz]

Tysha, is this Alleras=Aegon theory yours? Has it gone around on the asoiaf.westros.org boards? It's certainly new to me.

I'd love to hear responses from Werthead and Raven on the discussion over the last week or so.

Edit:

After reading Zee's newbie thread where Tysha mentioned that Tyrion's ex-wife Tysha might have gotten pregnant and leaving the paternity in question, I thought I'd post on this subject. All of my facts are from my own memory, thus leaving plenty of room for maneuverability...

Tyrion is seven to nine years younger than Cersei and Jaime, if I remember correctly from Tyrion's first meeting with Oberyn. Tyrion was thirteen or fourteen when he married Tysha, at least this is what I remember Tyrion telling Bronn on their campout. This would have been maybe a year or two after Robert became King. If sixteen years have passed from the death of Aerys II to the crowning of Tommen, then Tysha may have a thirteen or fourteen year old child.

If Tyrion is a bastard... Okay, yes, Tyrion is a bastard and a jerk and a %$@*#!, but I mean a Targaryen bastard. If Tyrion is a bastard, then even as a bastard he's Dany's older brother... and if he was somehow mi-frickin'-raculously legitimized, then Tysha's child (if Tyrion is the father) is the heir to the Iron Throne. Just like Barra or Gendry, there could be some urchin heir out there. Suddenly, the Hot Pie as King joke takes on a whole new light.

[Tysha]

Originally Posted by Boaz

Tysha, is this Alleras=Aegon theory yours? Has it gone around on the asoiaf.westros.org boards? It's certainly new to me.

It's mine MINE! MY precioussss...
I've finished the last book only a few weeks ago (and that's why I'm still so excited about theories and stuff..) And asoiaf.westros.org is looks like a bit dead... I wrote to them about an Aegon=Alleras theory but no one seems to be interested in that one...
Ah, the sweetness of realization...After I've realized that R+L=J (I was thinking crazy thoughts about Jon and Arya as a couple lol(in the future of course) and thought how to make it possible, then I thought - maybe Jon is not Arya's brother and then.. wait a minute.. Eureka! R+L=J! Jon is a Targaryen blood, one of the dragons heads! My hasband thought about the Aegon prophecy at the House of Undying - so I started to look after Aegon, thinking of all 15-17 years old boys that were mentioned.. it came to me the night I went to sleep after finished AFFC,I thought about mysterious Alleras who is HALF DORNISH.. hmm... half dornish.. like Aegon?! Then I've started to search for the details, there is a lot of little ditails that supported Alleras=Aegon theory. End of story. Sorry for spilling it out, I have no one else to boast it in front of

Originally Posted by Boaz

If Tyrion is a bastard... Okay, yes, Tyrion is a bastard and a jerk and a %$@*#!, but I mean a Targaryen bastard. If Tyrion is a bastard, then even as a bastard he's Dany's older brother... and if he was somehow mi-frickin'-raculously legitimized, then Tysha's child (if Tyrion is the father) is the heir to the Iron Throne. Just like Barra or Gendry, there could be some urchin heir out there. Suddenly, the Hot Pie as King joke takes on a whole new light.

Oh my, Tyrion's bastard would be so great, a little Tyrion, how sweet (oh wait, Tyrion IS little..), About the Hot Pie, that could be "the dragon has three heads" thingy (that this thread is suppose to be about): Hot pie, Hodor and Tyrion's batsard!!! (Dany is actually some Dayne's bastard, her mother throwed herself from a tower...)
And how is that for a theory? (dedicated to Aegon the unworthy to proove that I'm not an ELEPHANT!)
Any suggestions for Tyrion's bastard's name?

[Young stormlord]

Originally Posted by Tysha

I will try not to do that, but it's hard


Or.. when Martin is trying to draw you a more colourful picture or even to confuse you with a lot of little details.


Oh, thank you for pointing this out! Because he is so NOT surprised! look at this (the summary of the first part of the prologue)":
Alleras's fiends:"DRAGONS!"
Alleras: "Throw the apple."
Alleras's friends: "Oh my god! There are dragons!"
Alleras: "Throw the apple."
Alleras's friends: Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god!! DRAGONS! And a Dragon-glass candle is BURNING! (Did I say oh my god?)
Alleras: "Are you going to eat that apple?"
He sounds like he knows MUCH more of this than his friends... very mysterious.. don't you think?
Moreover, he is giving them (unexcited and unsurprised ) short Targaryen hystory lesson! (He tells them about - the dragon has three heads, who is who's son and daughter and etc" It's not a solid proof but it's certainly supports my theory

Jaqen is a Faceless Man! Looks like you and your friend Aegon the Unworthy seem to forget that part in his biography. He is very costly assassin, he's job must be VERY important! Who is going to pay a huge amount of money for information about dragons and others from the Citadel? And why to sent a Facelsess man to do such a simple job as gathering information? He is an ASASSIN - his job is KILLING or maybe protecting someone important=KILLING his enemies.

I will ignore that one 'cos it's really funny... Goerge Martin writing a whole prologue about a bastard girl who went for shopping in a lovely Oldtown... hmm..
Alleras came to the Citadel ONE year before the "prologue time", AFTER the war has already began.
Well, about "reports to Martell" and "learning secrets" - that makes SOME sense (for a change ) But it's so unimportant and boring...why would George Martin highlight Alleras, his looks, and all the important people around him (Marwyn, Jaqen,Sam) if it's just Sarella that came to learn, make reports for Martels or just shopping...

Well, she doesn't have to look like Oberyn, BUT she is a SALTY DORNISH girl! Take an avarage arab family (that resemble an avarage dornish family) - mother, father, children, grandchildren.. what the change for one of them to be pale? well.. there is some, like 0.0000001%. Of course, they are not twins, but features like skin colour, eyes, hair are racial traits!


Thank you, I've really enjoyed to disprove it

You just did what I told we all do. I was trying to explain that is posible that Oberyn met Sarella's mother in Oldtown, her being trader and all and him being Citadell acolyte. What do you think he lost interest in becoming maester anyway? That had nothing with Sarella shopping in Oldtown.

About history lesson: I still don't see any point in there. If you are Viper's daughter and he tell's you some of his plans that include Dany Stormborn of course you will know about who and where she is.That could explain his coolness.

There is also a thing about war there. Dorn wasn't interfering with war of 5 kings for a long time. It is possible that it wasn't hers (Sarella's) war 1 year before.

What we learn from Arya's and Tyrion's chapters (Varys telling Tyrion that sometimes information is more valuable than gold) is that Faceless man also gather information before they act, so my theory still stands. It is also posible that maesters hired assasin to kill Aemon, him being the Targaryen and all. It is also noticed somewhere that Hightowers were hardcore targ loyalists so killing Targaryen in Oldtown is not going to be easy task.
Just my two cents

And just to make you happy Tysha: Haven't you thought how Aegon got out from KL? Well I thought.
Jorren pulled him out . Remember him telling Arya that he lost only 3 men during his trip to wall. One was little boy who was bitten by viper while he was shiting. Perhaps it was figurative speech?

[Tysha]

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

And just to make you happy Tysha: Haven't you thought how Aegon got out from KL? Well I thought.
Jorren pulled him out . Remember him telling Arya that he lost only 3 men during his trip to wall. One was little boy who was bitten by viper while he was shiting. Perhaps it was figurative speech?

Oh! Good one! To suppot this theory - Oberyn had a weird hobbie (well he was weird) - biting people's asses while they are $hiting: 1. Little boy at his way to the wall. 2. Tywin Lannister - well figuratively speaking - he died of a crossbow bolt while $hiting, now look at this, Tyrion was there with a crossbow in his hands only because of Oberyn's failure at a "trial by battle"!

[Young stormlord]

Originally Posted by Tysha

Oh! Good one! To suppot this theory - Oberyn had a weird hobbie (well he was weird) - biting people's asses while they are $hiting: 1. Little boy at his way to the wall. 2. Tywin Lannister - well figuratively speaking - he died of a crossbow bolt while $hiting, now look at this, Tyrion was there with a crossbow in his hands only because of Oberyn's failure at a "trial by battle"!

What was that?You have obviously missed the point. You could used this to support your little theory Sarella=Aegon but because you missed it ,I will use it. Story goes like this : Aegon's poor mother seeks way to send him from KL. Varys tells her that he just might have a way. For in the city is a man from Nightwatch, going to the wall. They give him a baby and he starts moving. But before he could get to wall war ends. And while he was changing baby's silk dypers at Prancyng Ponny Inn,Oberyn gets there and takes baby. You know rest of the story

[Tysha]

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

What was that?You have obviously missed the point. You could used this to support your little theory Sarella=Aegon but because you missed it ,I will use it. Story goes like this : Aegon's poor mother seeks way to send him from KL. Varys tells her that he just might have a way. For in the city is a man from Nightwatch, going to the wall. They give him a baby and he starts moving. But before he could get to wall war ends. And while he was changing baby's silk dypers at Prancyng Ponny Inn,Oberyn gets there and takes baby. You know rest of the story

First, my theory is about Alleras is Aegon and NOT Sarella is Aegon!
Second, if you are serious about this one, Aegon was "a babe at breast", he can't be $hiting at the woods at that age Princess Elia gave her son to YOREN?! To take a Targaryen heir to the Wall?! She would never do that voluntarily!
Third I was only joking with you

[Young stormlord]

Originally Posted by Tysha

First, my theory is about Alleras is Aegon and NOT Sarella is Aegon!
Second, if you are serious about this one, Aegon was "a babe at breast", he can't be $hiting at the woods at that age Princess Elia gave her son to YOREN?! To take a Targaryen heir to the Wall?! She would never do that voluntarily!
Third I was only joking with you

So was I . Let's get back to the subject shall we. You still haven't beaten my last theory and/or evidences that Alleras is Sarella by the way.
One more thing: Why can't we just believe Martin that Aegon is dead and get on with it. If any1 had Aegon with him he would use it 15 years ago, not now.

[Tysha]

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

So was I . Let's get back to the subject shall we. You still haven't beaten my last theory and/or evidences that Alleras is Sarella by the way. .

Well, could you make a list like 1,2,3.. why Sarella=Alleras..? That will help me to put in order the beating

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

One more thing: Why can't we just believe Martin that Aegon is dead and get on with it. If any1 had Aegon with him he would use it 15 years ago, not now.

Because of THE PROPHECY that Dany saw at the house of undying!!! Rhaegar have said: "dragon has three heads, you should find one more" - that means there are two already (Dany and Aegon) and those two should find ONE MORE (Jon).

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Actually (and this is one of those things) Martin categorically did not say Aegon was dead. When asked about whether the children of Rhaegar and Elia were killed at KL(and this is in another thread somewhere--still lacking in google-fu) he responded with an enigmatic "Well, Rhaenys is dead"

Once again Boaz will now post a link that will refer you to a thread that looks right but contains nothing more than a slavering diatribe about his love for James Clavell.

[Young stormlord]

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

You just did what I told we all do. I was trying to explain that is posible that Oberyn met Sarella's mother in Oldtown, her being trader and all and him being Citadell acolyte. What do you think he lost interest in becoming maester anyway? That had nothing with Sarella shopping in Oldtown.

About history lesson: I still don't see any point in there. If you are Viper's daughter and he tell's you some of his plans that include Dany Stormborn of course you will know about who and where she is.That could explain his coolness.

There is also a thing about war there. Dorn wasn't interfering with war of 5 kings for a long time. It is possible that it wasn't hers (Sarella's) war 1 year before.

What we learn from Arya's and Tyrion's chapters (Varys telling Tyrion that sometimes information is more valuable than gold) is that Faceless man also gather information before they act, so my theory still stands. It is also posible that maesters hired assasin to kill Aemon, him being the Targaryen and all. It is also noticed somewhere that Hightowers were hardcore targ loyalists so killing Targaryen in Oldtown is not going to be easy task.
Just my two cents

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

I read this in Sam last chapter in AFFC. And that proves only that Alleras is Sarella (not that Sarella is Aegon!).

Sphinx are also mentioned in ACOK when Tyrion first times go to small council (delivers Tiwins message). This would S=A supporters take as proof but that doesn't mean anything. That could mean only that Cersei is trying to act like a man.

I

Originally Posted by Young stormlord

It is funny how people take only parts that support their theory while ignoring everything else. But I am doing the same so what about that?

Almost everything that Martin wrote has some usage especially when he describes something big such as huge green sphinxes on Citadell entrance.


Acolytes have only one chance to lit that candle, and that is when they have finished their chain and already become maesters (right before they get lord to serve). Reason why "Jaquen" is there could be this : Arya have heard blinky(spelling?) and fat man arguing about something in Braavos. Perhaps fat man is "Jaquen". "Jaquen" took key that opens all Citadell doors from Pate?It is posible they were talking about taking some rare books from Citadell. Books about others and dragons.

Now for second acussation
Sarellas reasons for being in Oldtown:
1. She loves that town(AFFC "Captain of guards", Tienna)Perhaps Oberyn meet her mother there (Oldtowh is great merchant town, house Hightower is rich house,protectors of Citadell, that got their money trading)
2. She was forging her's chain when war started (little game of hers. Martell same chapter).
3. Hightowers are rich as Lannisters (Sam's last chapter, AFFC). And guess who's sending reports about them to Martell's.
4. She is at Marwin's room for a reason. Marwin is teaching "higher secrets", magic in looking for a better word. (his staff and mask are valyrian steel! apendix, AFFC) Who knows better about dragon's then man who teaches magic at Citadell? And when you are Oberyn's daughter who is schemming to get back Targaryens on throne you need to know all that is to know about dragons, right? And I guess that Marwin doesn't have much students.

About Elya: she is one year younger than Oberyn. (Martell to Obarra AFFC) Even if they were twins it doesn't prove that they look alike.

Who could say I would quote myself just to prove my theory? And to add some more evidences: In Pate's chapter Pate himself thinks about Alleras and Citadell sphinxes. And also says : "he has strength in that thin arms"

BTW I posted Aegon is dead just to make all of you angry.

[Young stormlord]

1. Alleras=Sarella

Mirrored name. The strongest reason.

2. Description of Alleras and Oberyn. It is also said that Alleras has thin hands.

3. Every sand snake uses different weapon to kill.

Obara-spear
Nym-knives
Tyenna-poison
Obella- mace
Sarella-might be using arrows

I forgot to quote myself from another thread. Sorry for double post.