[TTBRAHWTMG]

To be honest, when I read it myself the first few times, I would have agreed with what you say. I felt that Heinlein fared really poorly with Mary and her role in the book. I attributed it to his times, and gave him credit in general for being progressive with his female characters if still falling a little short on realism.

It’s not until this reading that I have started thinking, in light of other people’s insights into Mary, that maybe Heinlein had a better insight into women than I gave him credit for. Maybe Virginia had more influence or at least input on his female characters than I realized.

Originally Posted by Mollygurl

Thought that was pretty funny actually. Didn't offend me personally - he didn't say that this phenomenon happend with all women; just Mary. It makes sense I think, given how she was described. I don't think it was 'the male doesn't have a physical response, ergo he's an alien'. I felt that the way it was written, it wasn't an overt response that others noticed, but something that only Mary sensed.

put together with this…

Originally Posted by Liz Pf

On Mary's "special ability": I believe in it, completely.

Originally Posted by Liz Pf

I'm no bombshell -- and wasn't even when I was younger. But I can tell if a man is a "red blooded" man. No, it isn't automatic. But I can tell a joke, or look at him a certain way, and see if he responds, even a little.

This bit made perfect sense to me. And from what little is written about Mrs. V. Heinlein, she would have been a master (mistress?) at this act, and it would have been perfectly believable to her, too.

Together they made the “testing” more believable to me than I ever gave him credit for previously. And then regarding the scene at the saucer battle sequence, when I read this…

Originally Posted by Mollygurl

The thing that initially jumped out at me was not Sam's comment but Mary's reaction. I thought "What? No argument?" and I thought to myself that Heinlein must have believed that women were pretty meek and submissive that they'd go along with whatever their husband/boss said. After more reflection, I realized that it was quite the opposite. Mary reacted the way she did because she was so intelligent and decisive. She simply realized that Sam was right and that there was nothing to argue. It would not swing the battle in any significant way if she did go. Plus it would only draw Sam after her and she'd be risking his life as well. I don't think she wanted to do that after everything he'd already been through up to that point, including saving her from being hag-ridden twice. Besides, I have no doubt that if Mary had felt differently than Sam on the issue; nothing would have swayed her in her purpose.

and then I put it together with this…

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

Most of the intelligent women I know seem to have the diverse sides more integrated, especially that between intellect and instinct. So much so that they may not even understand themselves their reasons for their reactions. It isn't just instinct, it's reasoning done so unconsciously -- and with amazing speed -- that it appears an instinctual reaction. However, if you can probe enough, you'll usually find there's a lot of thought below the surface aspect of the mind, but it's so integrated with the emotions and instincts that it appears to be almost without thought. That's when they "feel" this or that way about something -- they've actually calculated the factors, but in a way quite different from men, which is usually more deliberative and conscious. Because of this integration, there's no division allowed in the mind when they take action -- certainly not in a crisis situation.

When I combine those with the fact that she was a highly trained agent and had a unique absence of long term habits, for the first time I’m giving him more credit for Mary’s believability...for that scene's believability, even.