Pandora's Star, Peter F. Hamilton: November Scifi Discussion

[dwndrgn]

Peter F. Hamilton's Pandora's Star

1) Anything you particularly liked about it?

2) Anything you disliked?

3) What subjects jumped out at you while reading?

4) Any other topics you'd like to discuss, related to this work?

[Rane Longfox]

My favorite thing about Pandora's Star was the aliens. Definately. I've never read anything quite like them, and it was very interesting to see how they evolved. Quite scary, but very interesting
As ever with Hamilton, his space characters are pretty cool. The added amusement of the astronomer on the ship added an important extra dimension to the story, and made it better than the space parts of Night's Dawn, IMHO. Him being uprooted from a rather naive life into such spectacular and public events was another interesting plot line too read. I always tend to like those characters, who get chucked in at the deep end with no idea how to survive...
The other part that I particularly liked was the planet owned by that one person. I'm terrible at remembering names, but was it David someone? Its something that pops up with reasonable regularity in sci fi books, but this one was better than most, I felt.

Very few dislikes, to be honest. I have high hopes for the sequel, Judas Unchained, but it will need to wrap up a few of the less likely plotlines well, otherwise it could just be dissapointing.

[chrispenycate]

Oh, alright-I'm rereading it. This, for book I've had for less than a year, from someone who is known for quoting great turgid lumps of books from memory, already suggests that I didn't get very deeply into the story (or that senility is seriously advanced)

I loved his "mindstar" books- but, come to think of it, the "nights dawn" trilogy has left very little residue, considering the sheer mass of the verbiage.

So, to "pandora". The device on which the entire story hinges shatters all the basic rules of physics- since "number of the beast" I can't think of a gadget so obviously wish fulfilment, so "I need to do this, and it's my story, so this machine will do it, full stop" Oh, this is science fiction so absolute verisimilitude is not required, but if you're going to break physical laws it's generally considered polite to at least give an explanation if not an excuse.
The characters are extremes, caricatures. Not that society doesn't throw up people like that, and to a large extent a society is defined by its limit cases, but this is a bit Marvel Comix characterisation- only unbeleivable characters need apply. The story, while tenable, isn't big enough to fill the book, and the choppy style gives lots of points where you can lose interest, requiring effort to resuspend disbelief.

All in all, I wasn't knocked out by this book, I'm afraid. And the second volume- well, of course I'll buy it as soon as it comes out in paperback

[dwndrgn]

Anyone else like to submit comments? Unfortunately, I was unable to get my hands on a copy so could not read along with you.
Brood, you mentioned aliens, what particularly did you like? The idea of them? Their characterization? Attention to detail?

[Rane Longfox]

The aliens in Pandora's Star were simply the most original I've read about, thats what made them appeal to me. The original aliens are mobile (or, "motile"), and go around until they find a good area, when two or three or four of them all join together and form an immobile superior alien. This one then controls the motiles with a mind control. The more motiles then add to the larger immotile, the more powerful it becomes. But reading the story from both sides wa very good, I thought. Its not a new plot device to have aliens doing something horrific without actually realising, but Hamilton writes it well, I feel. I was actually sympathising with it.
And the fast-tracked technological evolution was pretty cool

[spiralx]

Originally Posted by chrispenycate

So, to "pandora". The device on which the entire story hinges shatters all the basic rules of physics- since "number of the beast" I can't think of a gadget so obviously wish fulfilment, so "I need to do this, and it's my story, so this machine will do it, full stop" Oh, this is science fiction so absolute verisimilitude is not required, but if you're going to break physical laws it's generally considered polite to at least give an explanation if not an excuse.

Which particular device are you talking about?

[Arkangel]

I read Pandora's Star a year ago and i loved it. The motile aliens were done good, one has to give credit to his imigination.

The Dyson Sphere part broke all laws of physic and i think that is the device chris is talking about. The thing is so huge and with our present understanding of physic it should not exist. Maybe in future they might find new things that will change our view about nature and its laws and more over a writer should have some freedom to break any laws if he feels that will fit well in his story as long as it does not sound lame. His doesnt, may be not to someone well versed in physic but to the rest of us who want to get lost in the world created by SF writers.

What i liked most in this story is the journey Ozzie takes to the ice world and the huge water world. Hamilton surely keeps the reader on the edge at the end of this story

The ice world is really special, he has really cought the life of living in such a harsh world. Dan Simmons written a better ice world in his Hyperion Cantos. If any of you know any more stories which contain please let me know, i love reading about ice world it seems so different and extreme.

[chrispenycate]

Actually, the device that gives the problems is the wormhole- teleporter- matter transmitter- spacewarp that appears in the first chapter and remains the foundation of the entire book. It ignores the laws of conservation of energy and momentum (there's no way that a point on the surface of Mars is at either a gravitationally equivalant level or moving with an identical velocity to a point on the surface of Earth) it's selectively permeable (light and a guy with a diving suit can go straight through, and presumably the air he's breathing, while the atmosphere in the California lab isn't producing a minature hurricane expanding into the rarefied martian environment. Essentially it's a wish fulfilment device running on magic- it does whatever you want it to do, ignores the fact that space is being twisted like a plate of spagetti between the two ends- and does all this on its first experiment. As I said, magic- and calling the magic "Sufficiently advanced technology, backed by genius level mathematics" merely moves us into the field staked out by Hollywood andthe 50's pulp magazines.

My suspension of disbelief has a very poor gearbox- once it's cruising you can slide a solar systoms sized force field past it with barely a twitch- but hit it hard enough to stall it at the very beginning, it has a tendency to limp along in "analytic", looking for discrepancies for a few pages, before it can get back to following at full speed. This is not as enjoyable as getting into a book and just letting it sweep you along (I normally do a second reading for demolition purposes, but vary rarely contact an author to complain, you'll doubtless be pleased to learn)

I also feel that the book suffers from an excess of- well, everything, really. Not that the bits aren't well done, just that there's too much sheer mass for the story told- a sort of "Wheel of Time" "I'm getting paid by the word" syndrome, trying to map an entire universe with its multitude of private stories into one reading experince- but that could be due to the fact I was so often in "slow" mode.

Mind you, I wasn't expecting people to agree with me, and was surprise how few opinions were given- is this standard?

I've succeeded in downloading the Stross, but perhaps I'd better wait till a few more people have written before jumping in.

[spiralx]

Originally Posted by chrispenycate

Actually, the device that gives the problems is the wormhole- teleporter- matter transmitter- spacewarp that appears in the first chapter and remains the foundation of the entire book. It ignores the laws of conservation of energy and momentum (there's no way that a point on the surface of Mars is at either a gravitationally equivalant level or moving with an identical velocity to a point on the surface of Earth) it's selectively permeable (light and a guy with a diving suit can go straight through, and presumably the air he's breathing, while the atmosphere in the California lab isn't producing a minature hurricane expanding into the rarefied martian environment.

I seem to remember that the lab was in vacuum as well, Ozzie was behind a window? Maybe that was just my mind tidying things up, heh. Apart from that, you're back to judging things by what we know now, the book even says that it's based on new science, as with any speculative sci-fi you've got to take it on license that some things seem impossible with today's understanding of physics.

Originally Posted by chrispenycate

Essentially it's a wish fulfilment device running on magic- it does whatever you want it to do, ignores the fact that space is being twisted like a plate of spagetti between the two ends- and does all this on its first experiment.

It never actually says that it was the first experiment, just the one they chose to publicise their device...


Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but it seems like you're going to miss out on a lot of good sci-fi if you apply these criteria to everything you read...

[chrispenycate]

Originally Posted by spiralx

I seem to remember that the lab was in vacuum as well, Ozzie was behind a window? Maybe that was just my mind tidying things up, heh. Apart from that, you're back to judging things by what we know now, the book even says that it's based on new science, as with any speculative sci-fi you've got to take it on license that some things seem impossible with today's understanding of physics.

But- first manned mission to Mars- that's less than a century into the future. And it's not new physics I object to- it's giving up the basic laws without explainig away how you did it. That invention would give us perpetual motion, infinite energy generation, probably effective time travel- it needs limiting, restricting to - Oh, I can't help it, I just think like that.

Originally Posted by spiralx

It never actually says that it was the first experiment, just the one they chose to publicise their device...


Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but it seems like you're going to miss out on a lot of good sci-fi if you apply these criteria to everything you read...

I can't apply it to everything I read- only sci-fi really lends itself to this analytic aproach (though I do catch myself doing it elsewhere- newspapers generally suffer dreadfully) but I get pleasure from the habit as well. Sci-fi, contrary to fantasy, should stand up to this treatment (personal opinion) and writers should be aware that the genre attracts the sort of reader who will play the game of trying to double guess them. (although I admit to being a somewhat extreme case)

I miss out on a lot of good sci-fi by not being able to find it, and read all of it I can get hold of (and the only time I have a "to read" pile is just after my trips to the UK) but analising it to pieces is part of the experience.

[Jayaprakash Satyamurthy]

Having read some Hamilton (but not this) I'll have support Chris on one point - Hamilton's works definitely seemed too drawn-out to me, too much a product of the trend towards maximalism that's turned spec fic reading into a mammoth undertaking. Just my opinion, and it's a known fact that I'm not a huge fan of epic length storytelling.

[I, Brian]

I agree as well, have read the first NightsDawn volume, and one of his other books I only partly got through.

Has a real problem keeping focus in those books, so you spend a lot of time with peripheral characters who don't particularly add to the story. So it's sad to see the same complaint raised here by Chris.

[Jayaprakash Satyamurthy]

I suppose it is also a taste issue, to be fair. There seems to be a whole generation of spec fic fans who relish the more wide-screen format and might find the slimmer novels of the 40s-70s too slight to satisfy. Tastes in fiction seem to go in cycles in this respect.

[spiralx]

Originally Posted by chrispenycate

But- first manned mission to Mars- that's less than a century into the future. And it's not new physics I object to- it's giving up the basic laws without explainig away how you did it. That invention would give us perpetual motion, infinite energy generation, probably effective time travel- it needs limiting, restricting to - Oh, I can't help it, I just think like that.

A century ago today Einstein published E=mc^2, look at the advances in physics since then Trying to second guess what advances will occur in the next century takes a braver man than I

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by knivesout

I suppose it is also a taste issue, to be fair. There seems to be a whole generation of spec fic fans who relish the more wide-screen format and might find the slimmer novels of the 40s-70s too slight to satisfy. Tastes in fiction seem to go in cycles in this respect.

I agree - I've also thrown the same complaint at GRRM, and he's certainly not unpopular for it.