[SPOILERS] AFfC General Discussion

[ChasenFate]

Asdar, I guess it depends on where you stand. It seems to me people below the neck are very interested in the game. Up north they seem to want to keep to themselves. Regardless, the others are still there and will come.

[Culhwch]

Originally Posted by asdar

I think Dany certainly has an edge. There are still a lot of common folk that fly the Targaryen banner in secret I think.

Well, she has Dorne for a start. In Jaime's PoV he ponders that the Darrys had never forsworn the Targaryens, and I doubt they were the only ones. Those houses sworn to Dragonstone, though militarily weak, would probably go straight over. Anyone against the Lannisters, which would be a fair swath of the for-now compliant Riverlords. The Stormlords, maybe. Maybe key to her would be Highgarden. Tyrell was loyal to Aerys till the death. And he has shown he changes kings at the drop of the hat - if it would seem Dany was the wave of the future, I don't think there is a doubt that Tyrell would hitch onto her coattails. Though the Dornish would of course be an issue there. Though if Mace were to die and Willas were to inherit - then it would be more likely. Interesting events to ponder.

[The Blackfish]

Yes, and crafty old Doran has proven that should he wish it, he is quite able to engineer events so that Mace suffers an unfortunate death ...

[AryaUnderfoot]

Finally I can post on this one! I finished the book on my lunch break.

I'm thinking that the next book(s) will be quite interesting. The power plays, along with what is going on in the world, will create quite a story. Think of it: war-torn Westeros is now facing Winter, and by the looks of it, it will last several years. The wars have killed off many of the smallfolk, the fields have been burnt, and the livestock killed. Winter had officially arrived as of the end of the book. I see this as a major chance for both Dany and Highgarden to really increase their power. Highgarden, until the Reavers began attacking, was for the most part out of the war zone. Compared to the rest of Westeros, it is the land of milk and honey. It seems that many of the lands in Westeros will fall to famine, especially since nothing can be grown at this point. And who would farm it? Westeros is doomed to be a frozen wasteland.

Moving on: I think that the Manderly's have joined with Stannis for the time-being only. Their goal: to bring down the Boltons, who betrayed their King. As for Davos, IIRC he is no longer on good terms with Stannis, so why would he be sent as an envoy for him?

I also think that Jaime burned the letter because he is done with Cersei. I think it had less to do with proving to himself that he was no longer her toy, though, and more to do with the "discussion" that he earlier had with Ilyn Payne. He lamented that Cersei could not rule, and that she would make a huge mess of things. When Ilyn suggested that Cersei be killed, Jaime knew that he could do that. Having Cersei imprisoned removes her from a seat of power, and also removes Jaime from having to take part in any betrayal. I am wondering, though, if Cersei will be made to confess- that could affect Jaime very badly.

What word did Brienne shout? The possibilities are going to clutter up my brain until they rob me of my sleep. I do think she is alive, though. Otherwise why have a cliffhanger like that?

So- are we all thinking that Quentyn is Daario Nohaeris?

Someone asked earlier what powers Qyburn may have used to resurrect Gregor, but I do not believe that was answered. Qyburn was stripped of his Maester's chain for practicing Dark Arts, was he not? Also, in answer to another early question: Cersei could not have UnGregor as her champion because as royalty she can only be championed by the Kingsguard.

There were so many topics discussed in this thread that I can't remember them all! So I'll post this and address the rest later.

[The Blackfish]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

It seems that many of the lands in Westeros will fall to famine, especially since nothing can be grown at this point. And who would farm it? Westeros is doomed to be a frozen wasteland.

This is a very interesting observation as I get the distinct impression that this is the prime objective of The Others as they bang about up near the Wall - to destroy everyone and everything with an unnatural, bone-numbing, soul-killing coldness.

Does The Other (whatever he/it is) have a far greater reach than we have been led to believe? I know there was something about this in one of the earlier books when Dany destroyed the house of the warlocks - in the centre of the building was the great cold blue heart that Rhaegal hacked to bits - but I can't remember what exactly.

In anycase, GRRM has firmly established that cold is the symbol of death and evil, and it would seem that Westeros is experiencing plenty of that.

[Culhwch]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

Moving on: I think that the Manderly's have joined with Stannis for the time-being only. Their goal: to bring down the Boltons, who betrayed their King. As for Davos, IIRC he is no longer on good terms with Stannis, so why would he be sent as an envoy for him?

It was Davos's idea to head to the North and battle the Others, Arya, so I think they may have kissed and made up.... But I'm with you, I think the Manderleys are on Stannis's side, or at least against Bolton, and that Davos engineered his own 'execution'.

So- are we all thinking that Quentyn is Daario Nohaeris?

I have no recollection who Daario Nohaeris is.... Refresher, please?

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by Culhwch

I have no recollection who Daario Nohaeris is.... Refresher, please?

Good looking guy with blue hair that Dany thinks is a "bit of alright"

[Culhwch]

Context? He's not the one who is the leader of the Second Sons or the Storm Crows, is he?

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by Culhwch

Context? He's not the one who is the leader of the Second Sons or the Storm Crows, is he?

Yup, 'fraid so. Storm Crows, I think. He killed the leaders of the other 2 mercenary companies to allow Dany to 'win' her current throne.

[Culhwch]

Ahhhhhhh. In that case....

I had the impression that he was a lot older than Quentyn would be. I imagined him as about thirty or older. I don't see how Quentyn, as Daario, would have been able to work his way up the ranks of the Storm Crows so quickly to become joint leader, and then just luckily be in the path of Dany's force.

So, no, I'm not thinking that, Arya.

EDIT: WS, didn't he kill his co-captains of the Storm Crows, and then turn the Crows on the Second Sons?

[napthali]

Great observations..I definitely have to reread this entire series...including AFFC


:applause: :applause: on the Salleras/Alleras bit..

Petyr mentions the order of the kingdom not surviving 3 queens..have we figured out who they are? Cersei, Margaery, Dany? Does Margaery really count as a Queen? I would not mind having a Margaery POV..I want to if she's got some thorns..


Do you guys think the title was a bit misleading? I expected to see more action from the Wall. Or is there some other connection I'm missing?

[napthali]

Arya seemed to be getting mighty comfortable with offing people. Do you think she needed that lesson to prevent her from becoming a heartless killer?

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by napthali

Arya seemed to be getting mighty comfortable with offing people. Do you think she needed that lesson to prevent her from becoming a heartless killer?

What lesson was that? If you mean getting caught killing that Night's Watch oathbreaker, I don't think she regrets the deed - just being caught!

And you have a point about the title - remember the title for all the future books is already known, as has been since the end of Clash of Kings (I think) so I don't think he was able/inclined to change it.

The future titles are (and I just know I'll get them wrong)
A Dance with Dragons
A Time of Wolves
The Winds of Winter

I'm not sure about the order of the last 2 as A Time of Wolves was the new book (originally only 6 books in the series, now 7) and I'm pretty sure its the one before the last one, now.

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by napthali

Do you guys think the title was a bit misleading? I expected to see more action from the Wall. Or is there some other connection I'm missing?

Nope, I think the title was right on. It wasn't referring to the men of the Night's Watch, but actually to crows. Westeros is basically just a big battlefield at this point. Strife reigns. People are starving, casting aside all loyalties, turning on each other, dying in large numbers, and- worst of all, perhaps- Winter is coming, and the land is completely unprepared to deal with it. This is a time when evil men, the carrion crows of the human race, as it were, will feast, preying on the weak.

[Boaz]

AFFC to me means that everything is dead or dying... people, crops, livestock, animals... and winter signals a time of death for nature also. So the scavengers, The Crows, have plenty to eat... Littlefinger, the Greyjoys, and the Lannisters are the main crows imo. The Tyrells are also among the crows, yet the Greyjoys are picking on them. Now the common folk, have nothing to sustain them, they wander to and fro looking for some still ripe parts of the harvest to live on... yet they are driven off by the crows. These people have become The Sparrows.