Graphic Novels - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Gnome · 17th October 2003, 04:56 AM

Has anyone out there been into or familiar with the growing Graphic Novels industry?

What I'm looking for are some recommendations, reviews or avoidance information.
I've glanced at a few of the so called classics (Sandman, Workmen, From Hell, etc.) and have been intrigued but need the oh-so excellent advice of my fellow forum members.

Got any?

Twelve · 17th October 2003, 09:12 AM

I have oh so many.

Akira
Dark Angel
Kamikaze
Record of Lodoss War
Battle Angel Alita

Realize that all of these titles are composed of at least 5 or 6 graphic novels a piece. Also notice that they are all manga.

12

I, Brian · 17th October 2003, 09:15 AM

Oooo, this is definitely a field of mine.

A lot of graphic novels are actually collections of short-run comic prints. These individual comics from the most popular graphic novels can sell for absolutely extraordinary prices.

Tell me - what do you actually like in terms of themes? That will help immensely. For example, do you want simple good versus evil stories, or something more literary?

Darn it - no time for recommendations here - I'll come back later with some specific ones for you.

Gnome · 17th October 2003, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Oooo, this is definitely a field of mine.

A lot of graphic novels are actually collections of short-run comic prints. These individual comics from the most popular graphic novels can sell for absolutely extraordinary prices.

Tell me - what do you actually like in terms of themes? That will help immensely. For example, do you want simple good versus evil stories, or something more literary?

Darn it - no time for recommendations here - I'll come back later with some specific ones for you.

I'd prefer something in a more literary vein. Are there any with Sci-Fi themes such as time travel or futuristic societies? I'd rather not get into any Costumed Superhero stuff. Historical settings would be of interest also.

I, Brian · 18th October 2003, 09:35 AM

I think on that comment, the most highly recommended for that area (and would be anyway) is Watchmen by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons.

It's not precisely what you're looking for, but I think it will come close in many respects. It *is* in the "superhero genre", but only superficailly so. It's not at all "superheroes with superpowers". It's a strong character driven plot about people and humanity, covering important social themes.

It starts off as a simple murder mystery in an alternative history of the 20th century, but soon escalates into something much much bigger. It's not directly sci-fi (in terms of future societies and time travel), but does involve elements of both, and various other strong sci-fi aspects - and somehow seems more deeply rooted in 1950's sci-fi than I can immediately fathom.

Watchmen is quite possibly the most literary of all the graphic novels I've read. It's a little overlong, but is extremely memorable for the characters and events, and very intelligently handled.

Gnome · 18th October 2003, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I think on that comment, the most highly recommended for that area (and would be anyway) is Watchmen by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons.

It's not precisely what you're looking for, but I think it will come close in many respects. It *is* in the "superhero genre", but only superficailly so. It's not at all "superheroes with superpowers". It's a strong character driven plot about people and humanity, covering important social themes.

It starts off as a simple murder mystery in an alternative history of the 20th century, but soon escalates into something much much bigger. It's not directly sci-fi (in terms of future societies and time travel), but does involve elements of both, and various other strong sci-fi aspects - and somehow seems more deeply rooted in 1950's sci-fi than I can immediately fathom.

Watchmen is quite possibly the most literary of all the graphic novels I've read. It's a little overlong, but is extremely memorable for the characters and events, and very intelligently handled.

Wow, that's some recommendation!! I'll definately start with that one.
Sounds like something I'd enjoy very much.
While we're at it ....maybe you can recommend one for graphics alone. That is, the illustrations knock your socks off....regardless of story content.
Is there one that really got to you on that merit alone?

I, Brian · 18th October 2003, 04:11 PM

Hm...hope I didn't over-hype Watchmen. That's a good way to destroy enjoyment of anything! It's certainly not everyone's cup of tea but I'd certainly recommend it here.

As for graphics alone? That's easy - anything by Dave McKean. More specifically, Black Orchid by Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean. Among the best of all comic artwork, in terms of effect.

(And, darn it, I am so going to have to bring them all down from the loft sometime.)

I, Brian · 18th October 2003, 04:22 PM

Actually, on the subject of artwork, Pat Mills's Slaine -which is a long-running 2000AD character - has experienced some excellent airbrushed work over the past few years.

I'm not quite sure how it's distributed over there in the USA - over here the omnibus reprints are handled by by Titan Books.

Slaine never really appealed to me personally as a story - I tend not to be keen of anything that sniffs of macho, and Slaine reeks of it. Still, it's a mythical Celtic fantasy and certainly has few equals in it's own sphere.

Here's a typical small panel from Slaine:

Gnome · 18th October 2003, 06:26 PM

Thanks Brian, the Black Orchid looks very interesting...by coincidence I was at the bookstore yesterday and was lured to a display of Neil Gaiman novels and brought home what I believe to be his latest, "American Gods". They did not have any graphic novels on display, so I didn't know he was involved in those also.
I then started what is looking to be a quite spiritual book that reminds me initially of Mark Helprin's "Winters Tale" in form and substance.
It's very intriqing to know he has some "illustrated" work out there....So I'm very intent on tracking down "Black Orchid".

Thanks so much for the suggestions!

I, Brian · 19th October 2003, 10:46 AM

I'm not actually very familiar with Neil Gaiman's work as a novelist - the one I've read was "Good Omens" which was written with Terry Pratchett.

Neil Gaiman certainly made his name in comics, though. His "Sandman" comic book series was very popular and award winning - and, for the most part, pretty good (though rushed at the end).

The shorter Sandman stories (collected in:"Fables and Reflections", and "Dream Country"*) I always found to be the most powerful - longer story arcs such as "Season of Mists" were excellent concepts well carried out, but not all the story arcs were that good - I stopped collecting Sandman during the "Kindly Ones", which was the last major story arc - a bad rush job.

It was always unfortunate that the artwork was always pretty simplistic and basic - it really deserved a full and indulgent treatment by Dave McKean.

*Apologies if I get the names wrong - I actually collected most of the series - issues 8, and then 12 onwards...up to halfway through "The Kindly Ones" - so I'm not overly familiar with the actual graphic novel titles)

Another of his comic works to watch out for would be the "Books of Magic" - originally a four-part comic series that is now in graphic novel form. Very good artwork - somehow manages to encapsulate a lot that is gothic, magical, faerie - though I'm not sure if there aren't too many references to characters in the DC comics' universe to be off-putting if not properly familiar with it.

If I remember right, Neil Gaiman also wrote a few other odds and ends in other comic works - I know he had a guest appearance writing an issue of "Hellblazer" (I have issues 1 and 2 of that one

) and Neil Gaiman also guest-wrote an episode of Babylon 5.

Hm...enough of the info dump, I think.

(Btw - as to Twelve's suggestion - I'm not actually very familiar at all with Manga - my speciality was DC Comics for a while. I've heard good things about Akira, but know very little about it).

littlemissattitude · 19th October 2003, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I'm not actually very familiar with Neil Gaiman's work as a novelist - the one I've read was "Good Omens" which was written with Terry Pratchett.

I've read Gaiman's "Neverwhere". It was very, very good. I don't think it's been done in graphic novel form, though.

I, Brian · 19th October 2003, 07:25 PM

There was a BBC TV adaption of Neverwhere. Unfortunately, I only ever saw a few minutes of it and it was horribly theatrical in that horribly theatrical way that may have worked while Pertwee was playing Doctor Who, but just doesn't seem to work well for a modern media audience. From what little I could gather from the plot, it really needed a more experimental director and better actors to bring it to life. Then again, maybe I simply didn't give it enough time to glorify itself.

littlemissattitude · 19th October 2003, 08:10 PM

It's too bad that the TV adaptation didn't serve the novel well. Knowing the novel, you are right that a director with an experimental turn of mind would have done well. I can see that it would have been difficult to deal with the alternate world that the protagonist finds himself in traditionalist terms. "Horribly theatrical" just doesn't seem like it would have worked well - sort of the same problem I had with the original film version of "Dune".

Incognito · 26th November 2003, 11:33 AM

Gnome -

I'm curious - did you ever sek out any graphic novels in the end? If so, what did you think of them?

Gnome · 26th November 2003, 02:55 PM

Well, Brian. After discussions here, I ask for some for Christmas....will have to see if I get some. If I don't, I plan to pick some up myself after the holidays.
I'll let you know.

17th October 2003, 04:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
Gnome Eldest & Most Wise Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 105	Graphic Novels Has anyone out there been into or familiar with the growing Graphic Novels industry? What I'm looking for are some recommendations, reviews or avoidance information. I've glanced at a few of the so called classics (Sandman, Workmen, From Hell, etc.) and have been intrigued but need the oh-so excellent advice of my fellow forum members. Got any?

18th October 2003, 09:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 5,374	I think on that comment, the most highly recommended for that area (and would be anyway) is Watchmen by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. It's not precisely what you're looking for, but I think it will come close in many respects. It is in the "superhero genre", but only superficailly so. It's not at all "superheroes with superpowers". It's a strong character driven plot about people and humanity, covering important social themes. It starts off as a simple murder mystery in an alternative history of the 20th century, but soon escalates into something much much bigger. It's not directly sci-fi (in terms of future societies and time travel), but does involve elements of both, and various other strong sci-fi aspects - and somehow seems more deeply rooted in 1950's sci-fi than I can immediately fathom. Watchmen is quite possibly the most literary of all the graphic novels I've read. It's a little overlong, but is extremely memorable for the characters and events, and very intelligently handled. Attached Images

18th October 2003, 04:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 5,374	Hm...hope I didn't over-hype Watchmen. That's a good way to destroy enjoyment of anything! It's certainly not everyone's cup of tea but I'd certainly recommend it here. As for graphics alone? That's easy - anything by Dave McKean. More specifically, Black Orchid by Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean. Among the best of all comic artwork, in terms of effect. (And, darn it, I am so going to have to bring them all down from the loft sometime.) Attached Images

18th October 2003, 04:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 5,374	Actually, on the subject of artwork, Pat Mills's Slaine -which is a long-running 2000AD character - has experienced some excellent airbrushed work over the past few years. I'm not quite sure how it's distributed over there in the USA - over here the omnibus reprints are handled by by Titan Books. Slaine never really appealed to me personally as a story - I tend not to be keen of anything that sniffs of macho, and Slaine reeks of it. Still, it's a mythical Celtic fantasy and certainly has few equals in it's own sphere. Here's a typical small panel from Slaine: Attached Images

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17th October 2003, 09:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
Twelve Spirit of Zebulun Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 187	I have oh so many. Akira Dark Angel Kamikaze Record of Lodoss War Battle Angel Alita Realize that all of these titles are composed of at least 5 or 6 graphic novels a piece. Also notice that they are all manga. 12

17th October 2003, 09:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 5,374	Oooo, this is definitely a field of mine. A lot of graphic novels are actually collections of short-run comic prints. These individual comics from the most popular graphic novels can sell for absolutely extraordinary prices. Tell me - what do you actually like in terms of themes? That will help immensely. For example, do you want simple good versus evil stories, or something more literary? Darn it - no time for recommendations here - I'll come back later with some specific ones for you.

18th October 2003, 06:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
Gnome Eldest & Most Wise Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 105	Thanks Brian, the Black Orchid looks very interesting...by coincidence I was at the bookstore yesterday and was lured to a display of Neil Gaiman novels and brought home what I believe to be his latest, "American Gods". They did not have any graphic novels on display, so I didn't know he was involved in those also. I then started what is looking to be a quite spiritual book that reminds me initially of Mark Helprin's "Winters Tale" in form and substance. It's very intriqing to know he has some "illustrated" work out there....So I'm very intent on tracking down "Black Orchid". Thanks so much for the suggestions!

19th October 2003, 10:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 5,374	I'm not actually very familiar with Neil Gaiman's work as a novelist - the one I've read was "Good Omens" which was written with Terry Pratchett. Neil Gaiman certainly made his name in comics, though. His "Sandman" comic book series was very popular and award winning - and, for the most part, pretty good (though rushed at the end). The shorter Sandman stories (collected in:"Fables and Reflections", and "Dream Country") I always found to be the most powerful - longer story arcs such as "Season of Mists" were excellent concepts well carried out, but not all the story arcs were that good - I stopped collecting Sandman during the "Kindly Ones", which was the last major story arc - a bad rush job. It was always unfortunate that the artwork was always pretty simplistic and basic - it really deserved a full and indulgent treatment by Dave McKean. Apologies if I get the names wrong - I actually collected most of the series - issues 8, and then 12 onwards...up to halfway through "The Kindly Ones" - so I'm not overly familiar with the actual graphic novel titles) Another of his comic works to watch out for would be the "Books of Magic" - originally a four-part comic series that is now in graphic novel form. Very good artwork - somehow manages to encapsulate a lot that is gothic, magical, faerie - though I'm not sure if there aren't too many references to characters in the DC comics' universe to be off-putting if not properly familiar with it. If I remember right, Neil Gaiman also wrote a few other odds and ends in other comic works - I know he had a guest appearance writing an issue of "Hellblazer" (I have issues 1 and 2 of that one ) and Neil Gaiman also guest-wrote an episode of Babylon 5. Hm...enough of the info dump, I think. (Btw - as to Twelve's suggestion - I'm not actually very familiar at all with Manga - my speciality was DC Comics for a while. I've heard good things about Akira, but know very little about it).

19th October 2003, 07:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 5,374	There was a BBC TV adaption of Neverwhere. Unfortunately, I only ever saw a few minutes of it and it was horribly theatrical in that horribly theatrical way that may have worked while Pertwee was playing Doctor Who, but just doesn't seem to work well for a modern media audience. From what little I could gather from the plot, it really needed a more experimental director and better actors to bring it to life. Then again, maybe I simply didn't give it enough time to glorify itself.

19th October 2003, 08:10 PM	#13 (permalink)
littlemissattitude Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,342	It's too bad that the TV adaptation didn't serve the novel well. Knowing the novel, you are right that a director with an experimental turn of mind would have done well. I can see that it would have been difficult to deal with the alternate world that the protagonist finds himself in traditionalist terms. "Horribly theatrical" just doesn't seem like it would have worked well - sort of the same problem I had with the original film version of "Dune".

26th November 2003, 11:33 AM	#14 (permalink)
Incognito going spare! Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 163	Gnome - I'm curious - did you ever sek out any graphic novels in the end? If so, what did you think of them?

26th November 2003, 02:55 PM	#15 (permalink)
Gnome Eldest & Most Wise Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 105	Well, Brian. After discussions here, I ask for some for Christmas....will have to see if I get some. If I don't, I plan to pick some up myself after the holidays. I'll let you know.