Turkey entering the EU

[SirRob]

It should never happen. For a start its not physically in Europe... You might as well rename it the World Union, seeing that once Turkey got in half of the middle east would soon be clammering for entry themselves.

Also, its a brutally run country that couldn't hope to match the levels of prosperity and order needed for admission. There are many other much more worthy European countries which want admission but will not get them because they would place too much strain on the wealthier countries.

Eventually Turkey will probably succeed which is another example of our politicians ignoring the future and letting disaster of some kind slip ever closer. It disgusts me that they feel they can't disagree for fear of being accused rascist and not appeasing the US demands, which want Turkey in the EU for strategic advantages.

[brian]

My perception is that this is no mere whimsical issue, but that there's a global strategy in play here - especially with the USA pushing for Turkish entry, via British support.

Part of it seems to be about providing a stabilising input into the Middle East and Islamic nations - the view appears to be that if Turkey joins the EU, it will indirectly drag the Middle East into the influence of EU politics. And with it, make inroads in otherwise difficult and radical to deal with Islamic nations. Yes, the EU and US already deal with such countries, but namely as part of foreign policy - EU enlargement with Turkey on board would make it an issue of domestic politics. And, as NATO pretty much equates to US foreign policy being EU foreign policy, that would mean US foreign policy gaining a direct foothold into the somewhat turbulent Arab world.

Of course, the US also has bases in Turkey - joining the EU is one way of particularly protecting them in addition - especially as there's hostility to the presence of US personnel in Saudi Arabia. Again, Turkey joining the EU would be a way of smoothing friction on the issue.

And, if Turkey joins the EU, that would give the EU some real voice over the Kurdish peoples, which of course spread right across northern Turkey and through Armenia, Iraq and Iran. Consider what I've said above about the US and EU foreign/domestic policy expanding deeper into the Arab world - and then bear the point about the Kurds particularly in mind.

Also note that Turkey is actually intrinsically connected to Europe - it still has admin control of some of the old Greek territory lost to the Ottomans - such as Thrace and Macedonia (soryy, don't know the modern region names - and it's not the same Macedonia as the modern state, which is more than a little removed from it's ancient boundaries that Alexander the Great knew of) - and, of course, Crete. If Turkey were to join the EU, if would be hard not to try and have properly addressed the issue of Cretan unification against the backdrop of Turkish occupation and Greek resentment. It's too recent to be too close to being another Gibraltar.

As for Turkey's record - no, it's not good - but my impression is that they're pretty desperate to conform to EU demands - I think they recently addressed at least some part of the death penalty (did they actually remove it??) which has always been an EU demand. There's a pretty hard nationalist as the pivot of the new and current Turkish government - but according to the BBC, he seems to be dancing to the strings that the EU are trying to pull on him - just as British politicians, regardless their words and principles, become puppets for a civil service that has a good idea of what it will and will not do - the faceless controllers of real British policy?

Anyway - that's enough opinion. Does that you see the issue any better?

[Survivor]

Um, not really. I would think that the US and UK pushing for it would seem to indicate that the reasons for doing have little to do with the economic health of the EU itself and more to do with using the EU as an instrument of policy...which is not bad in and of itself, clearly the EU ought to be an instrument of policy, but I thought that it was supposed to be an instrument of European policy....

[brian]

Exactly - as I explained rather long-windedly.

[Survivor]

Heh heh...you subversive Anglos...

[nemesis]

If Turkey joins the EU yes Europe will have a small foothold in Middle-East politics but is that really wise? The door swings both ways.

[brian]

Heh heh...you subversive Anglos...

I could be wrong about the entire issue, of course - but if I'm not, it's US foreign policy that's pushing for it, using Britain as an instrument for it - of course!

[SirRob]

But the really sad thing is, that if the US does not succeed in bringing Turkey in early, it will no doubt eventually enter anyway.

[Survivor]

That might seem to be a rather...optimistic statement.

[SirRob]

?

[Survivor]

I just mean that it assumes a number of things that are optimistic, like assuming that the EU will be prosperous enough in the long term that inclusion of Turkey would be inevitable. Or that Turkey will continue its approachment with the West rather than being drawn into the sphere of Islamist government. You know, that sort of thing.

[nemesis]

Interesting that the USA is trying to lever into EU policy through the newer Eastern Bloc states. The UK may still be old Europe but it's still an obedient dog. Rumsfield feels that Germany and France have become too old for new tricks.

[brian]

Well, Turkey is really playing fast ball with the US over the planned use of the Turkish boder in a conflict with Iraq - the Turkish governemnt desperately trying to milk the issue. It does also seem that this is at least in part with regards to the cost of modernising Turkey for possibly EU entry.

Here are the relevant BBC articles:

Turkey stands firm over US forces - 21 Feb 2003

US raises pressure on Turkey - 20 Feb 2003

US presses Turkey on Iraq - 19th Feb 2003

[Survivor]

Turkey is playing a rather dicey game here, essentially claiming that we have a responsibility to assist them militarily and then turning around and trying to charge us for doing so.

Not unexpected, but if we decide to go to war without basing from Turkey, they will be left more vulnerable to attack. True, if our forces do not stage from Turkey at all, Saddam will be free to disengage forces from that border to help him defend against a drive from the south, but he could easily decide that moving them east and perhaps north would have better results. The man is a nut-job, after all. And he has strong tactical and strategic reasons for making a spoiling attack against Turkey if U.S. forces aren't staged there.

[SirRob]

I'm not very well informed over this; but I thought Turkey was strong enough militarily to defend itself without assistance from the US.