Re-reading GRRM

[Duff_Omathum]

I've read the ASoIaF a few times now, and I've found that some characters which I found rather boring the first time have kinda been growing on me.

The character I am most enjoying is Samwell. I can't help it, the more I read the more I really like him. His character is so very emotionaly engaging. (BTW I'm a trim 70kg/176cm )

Another charater I enjoy re-reading is Eddard. Yeah, yeah, too honorable and all that but it's nice to read about an father who really gave it all for his family. I'm still choking over how he died. Joffrey got off way too easy. I'm hoping Cersei takes a big fall in the later books.

The last is, of course ,the Hound. The slaying of Mycah really is unforgivable, so he will never be a Good Guy, but his meaness/vulnerability dichotomy is brilliant! I've re-read him the most.

[MSBorba]

Has anybody re-read the martin books, one POV at a time? It sounds as if Duff may have done this.

I have only read through the novels once and listened to the audiobooks over the past month or so in preparation for the upcoming Feast novel.

[red_temple]

When I re-read, I usually do it a POV (or 2) at a time. I find that I can uncover more clues that GRRM has left when I string a POV together. Like thumbing through the Davos chapters and scrutinizing everything that Patchface says... Ned's chapters also provide a lot of clues, but GRRM was careful not to give anything away. I am really impressed how GRRM handled Ned - he knew everything (about Jon, Rheagar, etc), but his POVs only provided teasers.

[AryaUnderfoot]

Shucks, I never even thought of doing it that way. I'm re-reading AGoT (veeery slowly I might add, as lunch breaks are really the only time I have time to read anymore). Maybe with ACoK I'll do it the other way.

In regards to Ned's character, I've always enjoyed reading it. His excess of honor is just a driving force in his life, just like Cersei's lust for power, Littlefinger's ambition and greed, Catelyn's maternal instincts... I always liked Ned because his internal conflict kept him from being a total cliché- he obviously has gone through a lot, and probably knows that many problems would have been avoided if only he'd shared his great secret. The burdens that he has had to carry throughout his life, and the fact that he is able to remain as honorable as possible without becoming as cold as Stannis- these parts of his character make him very likeable to me. The first time I read about his death I was quite upset.

BTW, my dad just read ASOIAF and he doesn't think Ned's dead.

[red_temple]

That would be a shocker!!! He could be right - there is no depection of his death in AGOT. Does the book let on in any way who was present at his beheading? Obvioulsy, Ser Illyn would have been there, but he can't speak. Janos Slynt would also be in on it. Who else would know?

Ned's head was dipped in tar and mounted on a spike, but the same was supposedly done for Bran and Rickon. Sure would be very shrewd of Ned to orchestrate his own fake demise....

[Ender]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

BTW, my dad just read ASOIAF and he doesn't think Ned's dead.

LOL How does he call it when somebody takes off your head?
Your dad read AGOT?
He rocks !

[Culhwch]

Originally Posted by red_temple

That would be a shocker!!! He could be right - there is no depection of his death in AGOT. Does the book let on in any way who was present at his beheading? Obvioulsy, Ser Illyn would have been there, but he can't speak. Janos Slynt would also be in on it. Who else would know?

Who was present at his beheading? Yeah, Ilyn and Slynt, plus Cersei, Joffrey, the head Septon, Pycelle, Varys, Littlefinger, Sansa, half the court, half the city.... I don't think it was faked, somehow. Unless Sansa is as blind as she is stupid.

But I still wouldn't mind if he came back. I loved Ned, too.

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by Culhwch

Who was present at his beheading? Yeah, Ilyn and Slynt, plus Cersei, Joffrey, the head Septon, Pycelle, Varys, Littlefinger, Sansa, half the court, half the city.... I don't think it was faked, somehow. Unless Sansa is as blind as she is stupid.

But I still wouldn't mind if he came back. I loved Ned, too.

Yeah, I know, I argued with my pop until I was blue in the face. But he still thinks Ned's not dead. The only thing I could think was that maybe Varys, master of disguise, got another prisoner to look like Ned and pretend to be him on the pretense that he would then be set free. If Varys is a true supporter of the Targaryens, he could have reason for wanting to keep Ned alive- Ned knew about Cersei's infidelities, and he could also know where a Targaryen bastard is (Jon).

I know, it's far-fetched.

And yes, my dad has read all of the books. So has my mom and my little brother. Working on the twin- she'll break down soon enough.

[red_temple]

Awww - you guys are no fun!! I want some reasons why Ned can still be alive! Having only recently re-read Ned's chapters in AGOT, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details of his death. If I remember correctly - his death was never really "covered" in the book. Does the book make mention of the beheading being public? Or have we just assumed that it was?

I'm stuck in San Jose right now (2000 miles from my copy of AGOT), so I can't verify. Help!!!

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by red_temple

Awww - you guys are no fun!! I want some reasons why Ned can still be alive! Having only recently re-read Ned's chapters in AGOT, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details of his death. If I remember correctly - his death was never really "covered" in the book. Does the book make mention of the beheading being public? Or have we just assumed that it was?

I'm stuck in San Jose right now (2000 miles from my copy of AGOT), so I can't verify. Help!!!

Poor Red. I'll help you out on that one:

Arya's POV, pp. 716-728. It was on the steps of Baelor's Great Sept. Ned (or imposter Ned?) confessed to being a traitor and conspiring to dethrone Robert's children in front of a big crowd. He was to be pardoned, but at the last minute Joffrey told Ser Ilyn to take his head. Ser Ilyn used Ned's sword, Ice, to do the deed. Yoren grabbed Arya at the last second and made her look away.

Sansa's next POV has her remembering how her father's legs had jerked when his head was cut off. (Yikes. That's a memory that will stick for life.)

So there you have it.

[red_temple]

Eww - twitching legs! Sounds like he's dead as a doornail, then.

You've convinced me, but now you have to go convince your dad.

[Summer]

I'm almost sure, that there is connection between Ned,Syrio and Jaqen.
It's possible that Ned is alive, saved by Varys with the help from the faceless - Jaqen/Syrio. I can't prove anything, but it is very interesting from where Ned knows Syrio.

[Sword of the Morning]

Originally Posted by Summer

I'm almost sure, that there is connection between Ned,Syrio and Jaqen.
It's possible that Ned is alive, saved by Varys with the help from the faceless - Jaqen/Syrio. I can't prove anything, but it is very interesting from where Ned knows Syrio.

I think Ned found Syrio becuase of Syrio's reputation. Syrio's fighting style would fit Ayra's slender blade. I do really reall REALLY hope Ned is alive.

Sad to say though, much to my dismay, Ned has to be dead. Without Ned dieing, the North would not revolt. I think that Robb did call his banners, but they were at Moat Colin (sp?) waiting on what to do.

[Ender]

First time I read a theory saying Lord Eddard Stark is alive
Have to say that...it could be......only cause that weird relationship Jaqen/Syrio/Eddard...

Only cause Varys could actually have killed another man.
Only cause Jaqen can do very amazing things..

Wow

That's a lot of "only's"....

[Dolorous Edd]

Possible solution:

The faceless men are an assasin "cult", we know they're "very expensive" (and this from the perspective of a REALM, so the cost must be astronomical!) and assasins are often like to die during their assignment's - it goes with the territory.

Now, here's my answer to all your Ned-lover's hopes.


If the faceless men accept that their members are like to die during a mission...... why would they object to a member dying AS a mission?!? Members of cults are always completely off their heads tbh, so the man in question probably would see it as an honour to die for his cause or some other nonsense. Might be more expensive but Vary's would have to connections and resources to finance it i think.

Answer: Vary's hired a faceless man to impersonate Ned Stark and die in his stead. Ned lies in some cell (probably still at king's landing, it'd be like Vary's to hide him right under the lannisters nose) waiting for vary's to release him at the optimum moment.