Dune and science fiction

[Leto]

It's just a book. And written decades ago... Not the holy Bible.

[Brys]

I'm a great fan of Dune, but even in my very limited reading of science fiction, there are two novels (Dan Simmons' Ilium and Franz Kafka's The Trial) which surpass Dune, and in the whole of speculative fiction, I've read about 30 which I consider superior. It's a great science fiction novel, no doubt, but it doesn't come close to being the most imaginative in the genre.

[Tim Bond]

Originally Posted by Leto

It's just a book. And written decades ago... Not the holy Bible.

I mention science.

Not a religous manual.

It is just fiction.

[Cozener]

Originally Posted by stirdgit

I am new to this site so I may have missed it but are there any Dune fans out there? In my opinion Dune is the single most imaginative and compelling work ever conceived. I was just wondering what everyone else thought?

Agreed.

[Cozener]

Originally Posted by fungi from Yuggoth

Frank Herbert created something amazing with the Dune series; truly one of the finest works of imaginative fiction ever written, even though they were very variable in quality. Chapterhouse, for instance, I found almost unreadable, and God Emperor I felt was little more than a gospel for Dune followers. Nontheless, even Herbert at his worst was one of the most original writers of his age.

I actually enjoyed God Emperor more than any of them save the original. But I admit that I am something of a fanatic.

[aslanbagginskywalker]

Dune 1-Good, but overly complex. I put it down and picked it up again several times before I finished it. On a scale of 1 to 5, 4.

Dune Messiah: Top twenty of all the books I have ever read. More focused and coherent than the first novel. 5 out of 5.

Children of Dune: The ending ruins the interesting setup made at the start of the novel. Reminded me of the feeling I had after watching The Phantom Menace: so much potential, ruined... 1 out of 5

God Emperor: Slightly better than Children of Dune, but Leto II's endless philosophical ranting got on my nerves after a while, especially since you have to listen to his drivel in the excerpts before the chapter AND within the chapters themselves. It was like listening to a four thousand year old senile grandpa. He is not nearly as good a character as his father, Paul "Muad'Dib" Atreides was, and fails to fill the void left by his absence. 2 out of 5.

Thinking of reading "Heretics" and "Chapterhouse", but if they are catastrophes like "children" or absolute bores like "god emperor", i might not bother. "Dune" and "Messiah" are definitely keepers, though.

[Blue Tyson]

Yep. If I have to pick one SF book to keep/save or whatever, I'd pick this one.

[hypocriticHarkonnen]

I liked the first three, though for me Dune Messiah was just a bridge of sorts for Children of Dune. I've read God Emperor and though it was quite good, I didn't like it as much as Dune. I haven't read the others yet, but personally I think the story began to spread itself too thin beyond God Emperor.

[sarakoth]

The Dune universe was created by a highly imaginative mind and filled with many interesting stories and concepts.

However, it isn't perfect.

[Timewalker]

Out of curiosity, sarakoth, what didn't you like about the Dune universe? Are you speaking of Frank Herbert's original canon, or including the Anderson/Herbert add-ons?

[sarakoth]

One thing I don't really like is the extremely slow pace of technological advancement. The original Dune series takes place about 20000 years in the future. Although it's not surprising mankind under the Old Empire and the Thinking Machines wasn't advancing at all, the 10000 years of Imperial rule didn't do much either. Considering how fast we're advancing today (50 years is enough to change how we live completely) many things remain the same for mellenia in the Dune universe.

[Timewalker]

The question of how much mankind advances during which era depends on whether or not you accept the new novels' retconned history of the Butlerian Jihad. Frank Herbert had the major tech/cultural advances happen over a logical time frame of several millennia -- and then it was thousands of years again until Paul Atreides came along. The KJA/BH novels have Norma Cenva invent everything significant within a single century, which blatantly contradicts Frank Herbert's established canon.

So in the real Dune history, Earth was not devastated by nuclear bombs (at least not when KJA/BH said it was, else the people who hammered out the details of the Orange Catholic Bible would not have had anyplace to do their work). Technology was invented by more people than just Norma Cenva, and over a greater, more realistic time frame. The Bene Gesserit existed long before the Jihad.

Actually, it makes sense that technology/major Imperium-wide cultural advances would have plateaued during the Imperium. That's what tends to happen with every Empire, from Earth's Bronze Age to the far future. People have what they need, their technology works well and serves its purpose, and there is no real necessity to push forward. It usually takes a major event or breakthrough to sufficiently shake up society enough to cause really noticeable change. In our own history, that happened with inventions such as the printing press. In Dune history, it happened with the discovery of foldspace technology and understanding of the myriad benefits of consuming the spice.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by Leto

It's just a book. And written decades ago... Not the holy Bible.

Thank you for saying this. Dune is by far my favorite book, but I don't treat it as sacred material.

[Cozener]

Originally Posted by Spade

Thank you for saying this. Dune is by far my favorite book, but I don't treat it as sacred material.

I would agree with that as well. But importantly...Frank Herbert would agree.

[Timewalker]

No, it isn't sacred. But it is worthy of more respect than Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert have accorded it.