Feast Chapters

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by Young Wolf

I'm curious, does anyone know how he got the name Littlefinger?

It's because his family holdings are on the smallest of The Fingers, points of land that jut out into the sea on the eastern shores of Westeros.

[Direwolf]

Wow, these are all really good points. This is a really interesting forum.

Anyhow, it seems to me that Littlefinger could definitely make himself useful anywhere. With his cunning, he could definitely take advantage of the Cersei/Kevan rivalry, or the Tyrell/Martell rivalry, or the power vacuum in the North, or the lack of leadership in the Vale. He has the means to involve himself anywhere, really, but not everywhere. His manipulation behind the scenes at Kings landing seemed at least partly dependent on his actual residence there, as would his consolidation of power in the Vale. Furthurmore, it was never clear how much of his ability to "motivate" people depended on the financial resources he had as master of coin, which he no longer has. He can blackmail with his secrets, but more and more of his secrets are about dead people, and you can't win a kingdom with blackmail.

Speaking of which, any thoughts on what his eventual goal is? Does he want to be king?

[Young Wolf]

Originally Posted by Direwolf

Wow, these are all really good points. This is a really interesting forum.

Anyhow, it seems to me that Littlefinger could definitely make himself useful anywhere. With his cunning, he could definitely take advantage of the Cersei/Kevan rivalry, or the Tyrell/Martell rivalry, or the power vacuum in the North, or the lack of leadership in the Vale. He has the means to involve himself anywhere, really, but not everywhere. His manipulation behind the scenes at Kings landing seemed at least partly dependent on his actual residence there, as would his consolidation of power in the Vale. Furthurmore, it was never clear how much of his ability to "motivate" people depended on the financial resources he had as master of coin, which he no longer has. He can blackmail with his secrets, but more and more of his secrets are about dead people, and you can't win a kingdom with blackmail.

Speaking of which, any thoughts on what his eventual goal is? Does he want to be king?

Very interesting thoughts Direwolf. His eventual goal does seem to be to gain as much power as possible, but I don't think his delusions of grandeur stretches as far as the kingdom. Even he must realize he couldn't possibly demand such loyalty. He seems to not only revel in the current chaotic political climate, but also encourages it as much as he can by working behind the scenes. I think he enjoys the game itself more than when he actually wins.

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by Direwolf

Furthurmore, it was never clear how much of his ability to "motivate" people depended on the financial resources he had as master of coin, which he no longer has. He can blackmail with his secrets, but more and more of his secrets are about dead people, and you can't win a kingdom with blackmail.

Speaking of which, any thoughts on what his eventual goal is? Does he want to be king?

I think that Littlefinger's powers of motivation go beyond any wealth he can offer, although I do think he's extremely wealthy still, even though he doesn't have the kingdom's coin at his disposal. I think it's important to remember that he did start with next to nothing, so obviously that points towards some pretty great powers of persuasion. He's extremely clever and manipulative.

That being said, I don't think he aspires to be king. I think by now he's realized that being king doesn't necessary hold the type of power he wants- after all, look at Aerys, Tommen, Joffrey, and even Robert- they were all essentially glorified puppets (Tommen still is); the real power lies with the people who are more behind the scenes.

[Young Wolf]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

the real power lies with the people who are more behind the scenes.

Very true, Varys the Spider is another one to keep an eye on. I haven't re-read in a while, where did we last leave him, is he still in King's Landing? Wouldn't it be cool if old Georgie boy pulled a fast one on us and gave him a POV? One can only imagine.

[AryaUnderfoot]

I believe Varys is either still lurking around King's Landing, or has escaped.

SPOILER:


The Cersei POV chapters in AFFC apparently reveal that Varys is nowhere to be found...

I doubt GRRM would give him a POV because he knows too much and it would give away a lot of mysteries that help to keep the plot rolling (same reason he won't use Howland Reed as a POV).

[monkeydude]

I personally think Brienne will be it. It seems like the perfect choice...

[Culhwch]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

I believe Varys is either still lurking around King's Landing, or has escaped.

SPOILER:


The Cersei POV chapters in AFFC apparently reveal that Varys is nowhere to be found...

The last we saw of Varys he was helping Tyrion escape and trying (not very hard) to dissuade him from visiting (and subsequently and spectacularly killing) Tywin. And of course, as soon as the next dawn broke, and Tywin was found dead, with Tyrion missing - to whom would the mind immediately jump as an accomplice? The spider, the only man who knows all the secret ways through the Red Keep. So I'd say, with a city full of Lannisters under the command of Cersei and/or Kevan, he'd have been wise to go to ground. Though he is so profficient at disguises he could still be close to the action....

[AryaUnderfoot]

My thoughts exactly, Culhwch. He's worked too hard throughout the years to just abandon King's Landing now. I'll bet he's pulling puppet strings from another vantage point, as his little birds are not likely to have dispersed.

[Direwolf]

Originally Posted by Culhwch

So I'd say, with a city full of Lannisters under the command of Cersei and/or Kevan, he'd have been wise to go to ground. Though he is so profficient at disguises he could still be close to the action....

I think it's likely. But he seems to have "little birds" everywhere, and could continue doing what he's doing (albeit less effectively) outside of King's Landing. Do you think he will openly offer his services to Dany at some point? Or will he continue to do it in secret? It seems clear to me that he's always been a Targaryen loyalist, based on what we know about his history with Aerys and Robert, and the conversation that Arya overheard between him and Illyrio in AGOT. None of the characters in the book seem to like or trust him, but in my opinion, he's pretty firmly in the "good guys" camp; he's actually one of my favorite characters in the books. And Dany's already got a few thousand eunuchs in her service, so why not one more?

[Jinglehopper]

He may have fled to the Free Cities, but I think you are right. He can do more from King's Landing, even if he is invisible. I like to think he would try to thwart the Lannisters with subtle politicking in the city. He definitely has enough contacts and little birds to plant the seeds of civil unrest. I imagine the smallfolk are unsure of their leadership with Tywin dead and the male heir so young. Even if they loved Cersei, which they don't, it would be an uphill battle for her to maintain order in the city with so much war present in the land.

So here's to Varys sowing discord in the slums of King's Landing.

[WinterIsComing]

"he's pretty firmly in the 'good guys' camp"

I agree Direwolf. I have thought that since the first book and Arya's overhearing him when hunting cats. I have always thought of everything going on as kinda a chess match between Varys and Littlefinger with Varys being the good guy. (well as good as anyone is in these books.)