Feast Chapters

[WinterIsComing]

Originally Posted by jnr_turtle

I'm guessing that's there's gonna be new PoV from someone in Dorne since it's starting to have more political significance in Westeros.

We have Tommen' sister down there and the viper's woman.

[Direwolf]

Arya: "...it seems to me that his best move would be to increase his holdings and try for the North."

That's what I was thinking too, but I think he'd run into a few problems. First, he'd have to contend with the Greyjoys and the Boltons... he could possibly secure the North with the strength of the Vale behind him (and perhaps the Vale would rally behind Sansa), but the Boltons are allied with the Lannisters and Freys. Also, I don't think the Lannisters would want a Stark back in Winterfell, nor would they be too comfortable with Littlefinger as the Lord of Harrenhall, Warden of the East, and de-facto ruler of the North.

On the other hand, if the Dornish claim Myrcella as ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, then the Lannisters might be too busy to do anything about Littlefinger/Sansa claiming the North. And no one ever really liked the Boltons anyways.

I love these books.

Also, I agree that an important goal of Littlefinger's is basically to control Sansa, like he never could with Catelyn. It will be nice to see him fail again there.

[Culhwch]

Originally Posted by Direwolf

Arya: "...it seems to me that his best move would be to increase his holdings and try for the North."

That's what I was thinking too, but I think he'd run into a few problems. First, he'd have to contend with the Greyjoys and the Boltons... he could possibly secure the North with the strength of the Vale behind him (and perhaps the Vale would rally behind Sansa)

But would the Vale rally behind Sansa? We know that the more powerful of the lords of the Vale weren't particularly keen on Littlefinger marrying Lysa, the Royces the most notable. Not to mention that the only people in the Vale who knew Sansa's true identity were Lysa and Petyr. Now that Lysa is little more than a red smudge on the rocks below the Eyrie, do you really think the Vale lords would bend the knee to a girl Littlefinger pulls out and claims is Sansa Stark? For a start, Sansa's got nothing to do with the Vale anyway, only the loosest connection through her aunt by marriage, no actual claims the lords could or would follow. The most likely scenario I can see is the Vale falling into a struggle for power between Littlefinger, holding the Eyrie, and Bronze Yohn Royce contesting for supreme Lord of the Vale. Of course that means I am probably as far from what actually happens as is humanly possibly....

I don't know about Littlefinger. He seems to be holding all (or at least a lot) of the strings, but we really only have his version of events to judge that by. The man is delusional - he seems to truly believe that he and Cat had something when obviously Cat thinks not. Perhaps his ingeniousnous is all in his head. Or perhaps he is just a pawn in someone else's game. I don't know. My head starts hurting when I think about ASoIaF too much...

[Jay]

I

don't know about Littlefinger. He seems to be holding all (or at least a lot) of the strings, but we really only have his version of events to judge that by. The man is delusional - he seems to truly believe that he and Cat had something when obviously Cat thinks not. Perhaps his ingeniousnous is all in his head.

Whether he is a pawn in another's game or not he clearly has done more for himself (and more impressely without loss) than anyone in then series. Both in respect to the timeframe of the series; and what we know about his realtively humbe beginings in in his life.

[jnr_turtle]

Originally Posted by Culhwch

The man is delusional - he seems to truly believe that he and Cat had something when obviously Cat thinks not. Perhaps his ingeniousnous is all in his head.

Well the boy (for he was a boy back then) was drunk when he slept with Lysa, thinking it was Cat. I hear that's what alcohol does to you...

[Direwolf]

Originally Posted by Culhwch

The most likely scenario I can see is the Vale falling into a struggle for power between Littlefinger, holding the Eyrie, and Bronze Yohn Royce contesting for supreme Lord of the Vale.

You may very well be right. Lysa's little kid is the rightfull ruler of the whole thing, but I don't think anyone will care. Littlefinger will have trouble securing leadership of the Vale (as well as anything else), but he's so good at pulling those strings behind the scene and playing off people's mistrust, that I think he'll be able to manage it. As for them following Sansa, I've gotten the impression that the Vale and the North have been friendly with one another for a long time. They saw Jon Arryn as a hero, and Ned I believe was a good friend of his. Those loyalties may still be there for Littlefinger to exploit.

As for Littlefinger himself, I don't think he's delusional, nor do I think he's a pawn. My feeling from the books is that he's a sociopath, and wanted Catelyn for the same reasons that he wants to rule. I think it's a game to him, and he wants to win... and so far, he's doing a pretty good job of it.

[AryaUnderfoot]

I agree that Littlefinger would have some issues with the Northmen, but I'm not so sure about the Lannisters. Sansa has never been much of a threat to them; she was always seen simply as a pawn. I think that Littlefinger would be able to finagle support out of the Lannisters- he's always been rather pliable, for a price. And for that matter, he knows very well that the loyalty of most men can be bought in some way or another. The lords of the Vale may be little Robert's loyal men, but Robert is in the clutches of Littlefinger for now.

[Direwolf]

I think the main reason Littlefinger has been able to finagle support out of the Lannisters is that the Lannisters have always been so desperate. War with the Tullys, war with the Starks, war with Renly, war with Stannis... but they're finally running out enemies. At this point, I think they can do pretty much whatever they want to do, with or without Littlefinger. The question is, what is there for Littlefinger to buy their loyalty with now? The power of the Vale? To what end?

[Jay]

You may very well be right. Lysa's little kid is the rightfull ruler of the whole thing,

That power is predicated on the fact that she was Jon Arynn's wife and little Ned was Jon Arynn's son. Some of us think it's Littlefinger's son.

[Blue Mythril]

But didn't Hoster Tully force an adoption? Wasn't that what his dying obsession with Tansy was hinting at?

[Winters_Sorrow]

(abortion, not adoption ) and yes, that is the implication.
But Lysa suggests that when Jon Arryn was the Kings Hand, she used her power to find Littlefinger, get him a place on the council and get him into her bed as her 'reward'.
This may even have started Littlefinger on the course of blackmail & manipulation himself, maybe he was blackmailed into Lysa's bed?

Just a thought

[Young Wolf]

Originally Posted by Direwolf

but they're finally running out enemies. At this point, I think they can do pretty much whatever they want to do, with or without Littlefinger.

I don't know about that Direwolf, they still have to deal with the powerful houses of Highgarden and Sunspear. Though technically not enemies, they could easily become tired of Lannister schemes. The biggest enemies the Lannisters have right now however, are themselves. Dissention in the ranks may tear them apart.

[Direwolf]

Yes, Sunspear might definitely be a problem. I think I mentioned that somewhere earlier in this thread. But at this point, it seems like the Lannister-Highgarden alliance will be pretty steadfast, as Highgarden seem ready to marry into the throne one way or another. If Tommen becomes King, Margaery might find herself with a lot of influence, and by extension the Queen of Thorns as well. It would take some serious events to break that alliance apart... you know, the kind of events that have been occuring all throughout the three books... hmmm... I might want to rethink this.

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by Direwolf

I think the main reason Littlefinger has been able to finagle support out of the Lannisters is that the Lannisters have always been so desperate. War with the Tullys, war with the Starks, war with Renly, war with Stannis... but they're finally running out enemies. At this point, I think they can do pretty much whatever they want to do, with or without Littlefinger. The question is, what is there for Littlefinger to buy their loyalty with now? The power of the Vale? To what end?

The Lannisters may be running out of enemies, but they're also running out of family members as well. I think they'll have to maintain their friendships with those outside the family in order to keep their fingers in as many pies as they can.

Littlefinger is a very useful man. He has connections all over the place that would be useful to any ruler- especially one so desperate to keep her hooks in things as Cersei. Not to mention, he knows quite a few secrets. I think it would be prudent of Cersei to keep him as close at hand as possible... you know, the whole saying about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer?

[Young Wolf]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

Littlefinger is a very useful man. He has connections all over the place that would be useful to any ruler- especially one so desperate to keep her hooks in things as Cersei. Not to mention, he knows quite a few secrets. I think it would be prudent of Cersei to keep him as close at hand as possible... you know, the whole saying about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer?

Hmmmm, you may have something there Cali girl. I've always thought that Howland Reed was the one with the most secrets to share, but now that I think about it, Littlefinger has had a hand in a few of GRRM more secretive plotlines (Who is Tansy, what happened when Catelyn was young, who killed Jon Arryn, Joffrey Lannister, etc.). I'm curious, does anyone know how he got the name Littlefinger?