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Kate Elliott Discuss Kate Elliott's writing, such as her Crown of Stars and Jaran books.

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Old 9th June 2005, 05:45 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

yeah, I got into the habit of putting
**Spoiler info** on all of my gaming posts and whatnot... seems I better get into the habit on my book forums as well...

I should come with a warning label... I can have people tell me every part of a movie before I see it and the movie isn't spoiled for me... the same with books... vid games... just about everything... I guess it's because my mind works a little differently then most people I have met... who knows..

You guys see... Alia is to blame for my ramblings! see! I told you all! it's her fault! LOL

back on topic...
I think your on to something with that alia, but what if the bond is deeper... What if Stronghand has taken some of Alain into himself by sharing the blood... Remeber Aoi magic is based on blood magic and there is power in blood... What if Alain took some of stronghand... I will definately have to reread to see if I can find anything that shows a change in Alain shortly after the blood thing... it is probably very subtle and I overlooked it...

What did you think about the Anne being Alain's mother post I posted on the other forums? that would fit... scary if I think about it...he he
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Old 9th June 2005, 03:43 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

Quote:
You guys see... Alia is to blame for my ramblings! see! I told you all! it's her fault! LOL
It is not my fault... you have a talent... need I say more...

As far as Anne being Alain's mother, I think not... don't be daft man!
Spoiler
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Anne is a virgin...


Quote:
Anne was pure, never had sex, and that was her prize claim with Benard. She was able to make the fire diamone look like her so that it was like she was married to him, but not... strange, but yeah... strange. Anyways, she didn't have sex and she bore no child.
My quote from the other forum...
I disagree with Anne having a child of any kind. Besides that Liath could make fire, where Alain can't.
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Old 9th June 2005, 07:46 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

This is probably far-fetched, but... what else could I possibly do at work than throw random, highly questionable theories out for y'all to read?

Okay, so according to Henri, Alain's mother is named Rose. The symbol for the Lady of Battles is a rose. Alain has a rose-shaped mark on his cheek, and I'm sure we all remember the remarkable flower that was left to him by the Lady. Could it be possible that Alain's mother was the Lady of Battles, or God in the form of the Lady of Battles/Rose?

Yeah, from left field, I know.
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Old 9th June 2005, 08:31 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

I actually threw that one out once... Didn't fly to far... Here's why:
First of all, the rose was a symbol of the blessed Daisan, not the Lady of Battles (PofD page 145-6 PB) "His heart was cut out of him and where his hearts blood fell and touched the soil, thre bloomed roses."
I wonder if the token left for Alain wasn't the rose, but the touch of the Lady's sword...

Secondly, The Lady of Battles is the patron saint of chaste and barren women... it just doesn't fit.


As I was looking through my notes about the rose I found something I will throw out there for you guys to tear up:

Old Gods.
What if Alain is a product of one of the Old Gods, I don't care at this point which parent, although Henri does know. Here's why I think this:
1)"But that did not mean the old spirits had ceased to live in the world. They had only gone into hiding. The old spirits - like that boy who had held the reins of the biscop's while mule and stared at her so strangely. He had an odd, fey look about him." Hanna's description of Alain in Kings Dragon pg 545 PB
2) His affinity with animals.
3) His ability to set people at ease and connect with them, except for that whacked out Tallia (and even then he was able to get her to calm down a little)

I think I can name more... but I'm going to stop there and see what you guys think of that. It's a theory I haven't toyed with yet... funny I have thrown everything else out there. lol
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Old 9th June 2005, 10:44 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alia
I actually threw that one out once... Didn't fly to far... Here's why:
First of all, the rose was a symbol of the blessed Daisan, not the Lady of Battles (PofD page 145-6 PB) "His heart was cut out of him and where his hearts blood fell and touched the soil, thre bloomed roses."
I wonder if the token left for Alain wasn't the rose, but the touch of the Lady's sword...

Secondly, The Lady of Battles is the patron saint of chaste and barren women... it just doesn't fit.
Hmmm... well, what if Alain is the Daisan reborn? And who's to say that Rose was really not a chaste woman? What if there really was an immaculate conception, and she was labeled as a whore because she was pregnant out of wedlock? The Henri, who was in love with her, ended up taking Alain, knowing fully what he was. I know it borders Christianity a lot, but... could work.
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Old 10th June 2005, 01:41 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

Just continue to discuss without me. I will remember this disclusion when I have read all five books and you are still making silly theories.
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Old 10th June 2005, 02:23 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

Are you at all implying you have even the slightest idea of who Alain is? If so, then post it man... don't make me come to the UK and slap it out of you...

You can join the discussion anytime you would like Lacey... FINISH READING THE BOOKS SO YOU CAN!!!!!!!!

I would love to hear your imput!
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Old 10th June 2005, 05:34 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

I was thinking about the reborn thing as well... I mean if the Aoi create Sanglant and the Sleepers create Liath why wouldnt the Lord and Lady create Alain.... or maybe it was the spirits that created him...

I would prefer him to be all natural and he be just what he is... a man... but what if he is of divine origin... I dont believe it to be true, but it is a possibility...
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Old 10th June 2005, 03:00 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

Rose was said to have gone up into the ruins often. I'm wondering who built them, not the Aoi for sure. And I don't think the humans did either. So what if it was a God or the Old Spirits? And it is actually Their place of dwelling and Rose got caught up into something up there and Henri happen to be with her. Maybe it is their child and the baby was blessed at conception by the old spirits. Henri would know this, and so would Rose... Just thoughts...
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Old 11th June 2005, 03:09 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

then why would henri put him into a church that has turned it's back to the ancient spirits... I would disagree with you on this one Alia...

grrr... c'mon ms. Elliot give me the next book or the missing piece! please? he he
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Old 11th June 2005, 03:16 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

Maybe she was raped by the ancient spirits and it ticked him off...

I thought the idea had some merit...
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Old 11th June 2005, 04:52 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alia
I thought the idea had some merit...

he he, all ideas have merit.... Here would be an explaination....

Henri is in love with a woman named Rose, She is a dreamer type and spends alot of time at the ruins. One day she comes back from the ruins pregnant. Henri doesn't know what to think and pushes her away. She has her child somewhere else, but dies in childbirth. News reaches Henri and he is so distraught he goes and picks Alain up and fosters him. He promises Alain to the church at that time because he doesn't know what else he could do for the boy.

Henri feels guilty for pushing his love away and feels somewhat responsible for her death. Henri loves Alain as an extension of his lost love. He also held some resentment towards him. After seeing what they did to Alain (the cart) he lets go of his resentment and sees Alain with open eyes for the first time.

In the next book, I expect a lengthy discussion between Alain and Henri...
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Old 15th June 2005, 01:47 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

This story has just became crazy, throwing all kinds of possibilities into the hat. Also I am trying desperately to peice together the historical accounts but am failing. Does anybody actually know the bloodlines of all of the nobility. I aint got a clue.
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Old 11th July 2005, 01:43 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

Lacey at the beginning of book 3, 4 & 5 there is a small pedigree. There is a more detail one, I believe on Kate's Website. Let me know if the small pedigree helps, if not then I'll find the other and post it.
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Old 11th July 2005, 02:11 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Re: Who is Alain?

A thoery -

Alain is the son of Radegundis and Tallifer. This would explain the Lady of Battles connection. Alain has been born 100 hundred years into the future. Also this would explaint the Lavas Hounds issue - as Lavastine was descended from Tallifer through one of his daughters. There is some time travel involved. Alain is most certainly a 'saviour' - a new Daisan.
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