498 words

[I, Brian]

This is a scene intro I'm working on tonight, towards the end of my novel.

I like to think it only needs a little a little polishing, and am hoping after previous critiques on previous chapters that my writing overall is getting smoother.

It's a pre-revision version, but criticisms are welcome.

NOTES:

- The language is simplistic to reflect the language of the POV character.

- He's spent the past few years holed up in a city, and now he's riding at the rear of a dozen knights on a mission.


Ulric was now beginning to feel relaxed as he rode the pony. Probably because he was finally getting the hang of the movement, and not being caught out so much anymore. And because the more they rode, the deeper they went into the countryside. Even though he was tired and a bit hungry, he felt like he was finally starting to enjoy this ride.

Despite that the wide meadows and farms weren’t so common where he had normally ranged around Del, there was enough familiarity to help him relax more. There were sycamore and beech trees, alder and ash, and sometimes a stumpy oak. The long succulent grasses were familiar, as was the hogweed growing through it, and the patches of hawthorne and bramble he saw from the ruts of the road. And there were hills in the close distance now, and he did so love the hills.

The clouds above were also getting thicker, darker, and the wind cooler. Heavy rain, even a storm, was almost certainly on its way, and everything always smelled a lot stronger after a downpour. The smells of the city were strange and thick, but outside, it was a tapestry of familiar scents.

The ground was more gentle here as well. Ulric was mainly used to hunting in the steep hilly woodlands south of Del, but the land between it and Tulst was relatively flat and also given over to meadow. Even though he not often ranged there, it had the same plants and insects and lark song. And just like that stretch, sometimes it rolled in gentle ridges so that you couldn’t always see what was ahead until you crossed a ridge. Or else the road was hidden by thick copses of trees.

The emperors guard still rode ahead, and Dalathos too, but Ulric enjoyed being a little behind. He felt more himself, a greater sense of comfort and belonging. And yet ... he didn’t want to get too far from Dalathos. And though he much preferred the countryside over the city, he still wanted to get back to Sirath and Erin and Jerith. The thought occurred to him that his new friends were something special, and that he had found a new sense of belonging with them, that he hadn’t felt since Lucira and Mairir died.

His nose started to itch a little, so he rubbed his arm across it, forgetting that he now wore mail. It was a bit rough, but his nose felt better. He looked at a streak on his sleeve. “Dal?” he called ahead.

“Hmm?”

“Does snot rust your armour? Only I’ve got a runny nose and I’ve just wiped it on the metal at my arm.”

“What?” Dalathos looked behind with a smiled. “Well, either way, you’ll want to give it a good greasing later. Your mail, that is!”

As they continued over another ridge there was a sudden shout from the front of the emperors guard. A hoary voice cried out; “Men! Prepare to arms!”

[Gary Compton]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Ulric was now beginning to feel relaxed as he rode the pony. Ulric felt relaxed riding the pony

Probably because he was finally getting the hang of the movement, and not being caught out so much anymore.

He'd finally got the hang of the animal's movement.

And because the more they rode, the deeper they went into the countryside. Tired and hungry, he enjoyed the ride.

The more they rode, deeper they went into the countryside, tiredness and hunger consumed him, but the the ride felt exhilerating.

Despite that the wide meadows and farms weren’t so common where he had normally ranged around Del, there was enough familiarity to help him relax more. There were sycamore and beech trees, alder and ash, and sometimes a stumpy oak. The long succulent grasses were familiar, as was the hogweed growing through it, and the patches of hawthorne and bramble he saw from the ruts of the road. And there were hills in the close distance now, and he did so love the hills.




The meadows and farms weren’t so common. He'd ranged around Del, familiarity helped him relax. Sycamore and beech trees, alder and ash, sometimes a stumpy oak felt familiar. As were the long succulent grasses and hogweed growing through it. He saw hills in the close distance now, he loved those hills.


The clouds above were also getting thicker, darker, and the wind cooler. Heavy rain, even a storm, was almost certainly on its way, and everything always smelled a lot stronger after a downpour. The smells of the city were strange and thick, but outside, it was a tapestry of familiar scents.


The clouds thickened with darkness, the wind cooled. Heavy rain, even a storm, was almost certainly on its way. Ulric sucked in a breath. The city smelt strange and thick.



The ground was more gentle here as well. Ulric was mainly used to ranging the steep hilly woodlands south of Del, but the land between it and Tulst was relatively flat and also given over to meadow. Even though he not often ranged there, it had the same plants and insects and lark song. And just like that stretch, sometimes it rolled in gentle ridges so that you couldn’t always see what was ahead until you crossed a ridge. Or else the road was hidden by thick copses of trees.

The ground felt more gentle. Ulric ranged the steep hilly woodlands south of Del, but the land between it and Tulst was relatively flat and also given over to meadow. Even though he not often worked there, it had the same plants and insects and lark song. And just like that stretch, it rolled in gentle ridges so that you couldn’t always see what was ahead until you crossed a ridge. Or else the road was hidden by thick copses of trees.

I ran out of time here cos its late but these are suggestions. Please feel free to ignore

[JoanDrake]

I really like the use of detail, just having Ulric notice all this tells us a lot about him. I also like the way you describe riding the horse as needing to get into a movement with the animal rather than just sitting there. OTOH, I've always found that even just having buttons on my sleeve stopped me from rubbing my arm across my nose entirely rather than got caught as I did so, and doing so with chain mail on seems like it would hurt more than you seem to indicate. Since you say it's about to rain, he could notice a few raindrops spattering with the same result, that is, a concern as to rust.

[The Judge]

A useful first draft. However, I'm a nit-picker, so more pernickity than most (OK -- than anybody else... ) but for my taste you need to sharpen up your writing a good bit and think about word use. I've only time to look at a couple of paras in depth:

red = suggested addition/amendment
blue = suggested deletion
purple = comment

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Ulric was [now][I'd try and avoid "now" as it's too much of the present] beginning to feel more at ease on [relaxed as he rode] ["relax" as meaning a person becoming less tense is actually from the 20th century so not a word he would think] the pony, probably [if you want to evoke ease, I'd suggest longer sentences here -- short and snappy = discomfort] because he was finally getting the hang of the movement, and wasn't [not being] caught out by [whatever] so much [anymore]. [suggest delete as you've already expressed this with "finally". And any more = two words, not one]And because the further [more] [avoids ungainly too-close repetition] they rode, the deeper they went into the countryside.[this sentence doesn't work in the middle like this. If we know he's a country boy, it needs to be tacked onto the countryside description. If we don't know that, then it's a WTF moment, I'm afraid, so needs explanation] Even though he was tired and a bit hungry, he [felt like he] [unnecessary and distancing] was finally starting to enjoy this ride. [this is effectively like repetition of the opening line. If he's the type to repeat himself, all well and good, but if you're looking to tighten up your writing this should go]

[I agree with Gary that the use of continuous past -- "was [verb]ing" -- is a little too much here and it would feel more active with simple past. I'd also question a paragraph with both "beginning" and "starting" in it]


Despite the fact that [the][or alternatively use "these" but that's a bit present tensey for my taste] wide meadows and farms weren’t so common where he [had] normally ranged around Del, the land had [there was] [always avoid "there was"] enough familiarity to make him feel at home [help him relax more.] [even if you wanted to keep "relax" despite the anachronism of it, this is too close repetition for comfort, and it's also a repetition of the idea from the countryside line above] [There were] [avoid] Sycamore and beech trees flourished, alder and ash, and sometimes a stumpy oak grew. The long succulent ["succulent" is hardly simple language (and dates from 1600 so may be too late for him, anyway) -- and who is it succulent for? He's hardly going to eat it] grasses were familiar, [repetition] as was the hogweed growing through it, and the patches of hawthorne ["hawthorne" with an "e" is the name, not the shrub/tree] and bramble [he saw][unnecessary and distancing] from the ruts [?why is he in the ruts??] of the road. And [there were] [avoid] hills in the close distance [er... I know what you mean but close distance sounds a bit odd -- and they'd have been in the far distance before so he'd have seen them already] [now], and he did so love [the] hills. ["the hills" is a bit odd -- he either loves "hills" in general without the article or "those hills" if these specific ones]

I can't help thinking that this whole second para is info-dump plain and simple -- you know what trees etc grew in medieval England and you are determined to shoe-horn them into the narrative, needed or not. If these things are familiar to him he's unlikely to be even thinking of them unless he's recently been in unfamiliar countryside -- in which case I'd suggest you make the contrast plain eg "They had left the tall poplars far behind and were riding through familiar beechmast again." In any event, I'd suggest avoid just saying the trees grew there, but bring them in obliquely eg "Through a clump of oaks he could see a river, willows edging its banks" or eg "Sycamore and ash wings floated on the wind around them." The description should come from him, not simply be a list of what he sees, if that makes sense.

I don't have time to nit-pick the rest, you'll be relieved to hear, but I think much of what I've said holds good -- you have a tendency to repeat yourself, in the idea if not actual expression. To my mind, even a gentle bucolic piece like this would benefit from your writing being a good bit tighter.

NB 1: I'd have used capital "E" for "Emperor" since there is presumably only one of him, and it's "Emperor's" with a possessive apostrophe each time.

NB 2: I'm not sure what you mean by "hoary" -- that would apply to something covered in hoar frost, so by analogy came to be used to describe white hair or beards, and thus the old people who had such white hair and who had to be treated with veneration (and again, by analogy to ancient and venerable jokes with metaphorical white hair). I really don't think it can be used for a voice, even if it's an old man's voice, as the visual aspect of the whiteness is completely lost.

[I, Brian]

Ha!! I should have known not to be too pleased with myself over a first draft - especially as I know I have to do basic editing, let alone for tense use and passive sentences after.

I'm not too worried about the vocabulary references though, as I'm writing in strictly modern English, and looking to move towards a more vernacular POV as Abercrombie does.

However, the repetition is an interesting point as this has come up before - at worse is just means further edits should reduce my word count, which is no bad thing.

[The Judge]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I'm not too worried about the vocabulary references though, as I'm writing in strictly modern English, and looking to move towards a more vernacular POV as Abercrombie does.

I wouldn't for a moment suggest you should write in Ye Olde Englisshe, and it would be all but impossible to write a readable work just using 13th or whatever century words, but are you really writing in strictly modern English? Will you have people greeting each other with "Hiya? How y'doing?"? Will someone having an argument with his wife demand that she give him space? Will you use words like psychotropic or hallucinogenic when someone eats the wrong mushroom?

Sorry. Hobby horse of mine. To me, making the effort to exclude obviously modern words where there is an older equivalent which is suitable is as important as -- more important than -- ensuring a holm oak** doesn't creep into a medieval English wood.


** not introduced into the UK until the 17th century in our reality apparently.

[I, Brian]

Some words that are too modern or obviously non-English I'm trying to avoid. I'm not too worried if a word wasn't in use until after the 17th century if it seems appropriate, though.

Doesn't mean to say I don't need to take more care with my wording in general, though. My bad for getting too into a first draft when I should know by now that it'll end up being rewritten so some degree later on.

[Broamalia]

gary compton and the judge pretty much covered everything i would say about the vocab, wordiness, sentence structure, paragraph structure, etc. just looks like a first draft in that regard... i like a good setting establishment, and personally think info dumping isnt always bad if used reeeaally strategically, (which could happen here easily if it were a little cleaner) but i would be worried about the showing versus telling aspect of some of Ulric's inner dialogue, ie.

"The thought occurred to him that his new friends were something special, and that he had found a new sense of belonging with them, that he hadn’t felt since Lucira and Mairir died."

I hope this is shown in the story without having to be explicitly stated, cause if it isnt then this statement wont be enough to establish this feeling, and if it is then this statement is redundant... i think.

also, be careful that you dont confuse inner dialogue voice with narrator voice. its something i struggle with, esp. with third-person omniscient, but it really just means that your narrators vocab manner of speech isnt limited by the characters, and (i think) its even useful to separate the two voices, so that if your character is a tad simple, definitely use limited vocab when describing his internal process, but dont feel limited when describing external events, behavior, etc... obviously within limits, though. like the Judge said, the narrator shouldnt spouting off 'psychotropic' when the character is ancient Rome or something hoped this helps, thx.

ps. i really liked the question about the snotty armour, very nice down-to-earth, grounding sort of detail, and something not often thought about

[JoanDrake]

Originally Posted by The Judge

I wouldn't for a moment suggest you should write in Ye Olde Englisshe, and it would be all but impossible to write a readable work just using 13th or whatever century words, but are you really writing in strictly modern English? Will you have people greeting each other with "Hiya? How y'doing?"? Will someone having an argument with his wife demand that she give him space? Will you use words like psychotropic or hallucinogenic when someone eats the wrong mushroom?

Sorry. Hobby horse of mine. To me, making the effort to exclude obviously modern words where there is an older equivalent which is suitable is as important as -- more important than -- ensuring a holm oak** doesn't creep into a medieval English wood.


** not introduced into the UK until the 17th century in our reality apparently.

Not to be argumentative but there is a Manga called "Blade of the Immortal" (second time in 2 days I've used it as an example, must make me a fan, eh) that mixes 18thcentury Japanese idioms with modern Tokyo street punk, to , what seems to me at least, very good effect. Now this may be largely due to my not being Japanese and to thus coming at it only from a translation to English. It may also have much to do with a just dynamite story and what I regard as the best Manga artwork I've ever seen. I dunno, but I can't help but think that just avoiding the blatant examples you mentioned in your critique and similar would be enough.

[Toby Frost]

I'm very wary of deliberate archaisms in fantasy. My own view is that avoiding obvious anachronisms is fine. If a character in Stock Medieval World describes an experience as "awesome", I'll assume that he means that it caused him awe (and was as likely to be frightening as good), and doesn't just mean "excellent". However I don't really mind whether "awesome" only evolved in the Victorian period. I've heard it said that "Hello" isn't a medieval greeting, and only came into existence later on: I'm happy for characters to use it, though, especially ones who aren't particularly pious by the standards of their own society. I think there's a sort of immediacy in modern, non-slang speech which is lost for me when characters start saying "Good day", "God rest you" or some equivalent. There's obviously a balance here: for me, The Lies of Lock Larmora strayed too far into modern slang.

(Incidentally, Joan, you might find the programme Samurai Champloo interesting, which mixes a 16th century setting with modern rap culture. It's bizarre, but it works more than it fails).

[Peter Graham]

Will you have people greeting each other with "Hiya? How y'doing?"? Will someone having an argument with his wife demand that she give him space? Will you use words like psychotropic or hallucinogenic when someone eats the wrong mushroom?

I don't have a massive problem with any of this, although I accept that it's a matter of taste. Thing is, Brian is writing in the 21st century for a 21st century audience. The whole point about storytelling is to communicate, so to declare certain words off limits ("you can't use the word "music" in a dialogue passage in your book on 9th century Mercia, as they called it "gleecraft" back then") seems to me to unnecessarily limit the available vocabulary.

There are limits, of course. What sober adults call "hallucinogenic mushrooms" would have all sorts of slang alternatives. I'd never advocate that an author should use the slang adopted by sixth formers or students, for example, unless they themselves are a sixth former/student or their character is one. So, saying "hiya" is fine by me (because we pretty much all do it), but saying that something is sick (in the context of it being good), is going too far. At the moment.

To me, making the effort to exclude obviously modern words where there is an older equivalent which is suitable is as important

Perhaps - but it presupposes that we (as readers) not only know, but also properly understand, those words. Every self-respecting high fantasy village has a building called either a "tavern" or an "inn". Except they don't. What they actually have (if the description given by the author is correct, which we can safely assume it is) is an alehouse. Fantasy villages tend to be linked by something called a road. A misnomer for something which transpires to be a track or a lane, once we hear more about it. OK - I'm pushing it on that one, but you get the idea. Seems to me that if we used modern parlance and referred to our ubiquitous fantasy taverns as "pubs", we'd be far closer to the truth of what we were hoping to convey in the first place.

Julian Rathbone takes it too far for me (11th century minstrels playing a new song called Blowin' in the Wind was pretty much the last straw), but undoubtedly his use of modern idiom helps fix his characters in a way we can all understand and relate to.

Regards,

Peter

[The Judge]

I see this as a continuum from absolutely authentic at one end (eg Chaucerian language only, albeit the spelling tidied up a bit) and anything-is-acceptable 21st century tabloid prose at the other. I think the only difference between us, Peter and Toby, is that the "limits" and "balance" to which you respectively refer are a bit further up the line from me. That's perhaps because I'm interested in the words themselves and how we can use words to provide the necessary atmosphere, showing that the past isn't just the present with an unaccountable scarcity of electronic devices, but was a very different place in attitudes and culture. eg here in Brian's piece, to me there's a subtle difference between relaxation and being at ease, with the former definitely giving an atmosphere of the 20th century.

I also suspect I get pulled out of a story much more easily than you do if I encounter a word which grates on me as being modern -- to me it makes the story a pastiche like one of these Ye Olde Medieval Banquets complete with wenches, Elizabethan costume, roast potatoes and coffee.

[Phyrebrat]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

His nose started to itch a little, so he rubbed his arm across it, forgetting that he now wore mail. It was a bit rough, but his nose felt better. He looked at a streak on his sleeve. “Dal?” he called ahead.

“Hmm?”

“Does snot rust your armour? Only I’ve got a runny nose and I’ve just wiped it on the metal at my arm.”

“What?” Dalathos looked behind with a smiled. “Well, either way, you’ll want to give it a good greasing later. Your mail, that is!”

As they continued over another ridge there was a sudden shout from the front of the emperors guard. A hoary voice cried out; “Men! Prepare to arms!”

Hello. Or, How fare thee on this day of providence!

I wanted to comment about the gestalt of the submitted passage; there are far better crits here than me, and I am cutting my teeth regarding grammar rules etc so I'll limit my comments.

I did think there was a substantial amount of info but what worked really well for me as a reader was the sudden change as if my mind's camera was closing in (dollying??) on Ulric up till the point where the dialogue begins.

That dialogue snaps us nicely out of the descriptive and his thoughts I think. However, I wonder if you could benefit from cutting the introduction to the dialogue. If you were to cut from the death of Lucira and Mairir, to the line to "Does snot rust your armour..." the reader has a cleaner jump to the dialogue and you avoid 'telegraphing in' the fact that he has wiped his nose on his armour. Also, the light hearted side comes across stronger and the dialogue tells us what he's done without the need for prior set up.

Then there is a snappier transition back to the fact that this is a war, with the 'Prepare to arms' section.

What do you think?

pH

The thought occurred to him that his new friends were something special, and that he had found a new sense of belonging with them, that he hadn’t felt since Lucira and Mairir died.

“Does snot rust your armour? Only I’ve got a runny nose and I’ve just wiped it on the metal at my arm.”

“What?” Dalathos looked behind with a smiled. “Well, either way, you’ll want to give it a good greasing later. Your mail, that is!”

As they continued over another ridge there was a sudden shout from the front of the emperors guard. A hoary voice cried out; “Men! Prepare to arms!”

[stephen.samuels]

Just a quick little comment, I think everyone else has pretty much covered the grammar and vocab. Plus you said that this a first draft. All I would say is that your pose is a little wordy. I think this has been mentioned before but I feel that is a important point. Description can be at its most powerful when short and succinct.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Phyrebrat

I wonder if you could benefit from cutting the introduction to the dialogue. If you were to cut from the death of Lucira and Mairir, to the line to "Does snot rust your armour..." the reader has a cleaner jump to the dialogue and you avoid 'telegraphing in' the fact that he has wiped his nose on his armour.

That's a very good point - I can now see the unnecesary repetition - cheers for that.