Submission question.

[anthorn]

Looking for some helpful advice.
When a submission asks for the first 40 pages, and asks for them in order. Should I include the for the lack of a better word, Prologue, and then Chapter One?

The Prologue consists of an Email exchange and then journal entry.

Also, when they say Aproximately 40 pages, do they mean. Stop when you reach the end of the chapter instead of mid way through.

[I, Brian]

So far as I understand it, the reason for asking for around 50 pages is on the offchance that the writer can hold their attention after the first page.

So if your writing is great quality, that 50 pages allows them to see how well you can handle structural issues such as plotting, character development, emotional arcs, etc.

So far as I understand it, unless you plan to dump the prologue, send it with the chapters. If the prologue is weak, either rewrite or dump it.

Hope that helps.

[anthorn]

It does.

[kaal]

Another thing you might want to check on is whether they ask for "40 pages or first 3 chapters", or similar.
That might allow you to have a natural break.
I'd agree with Brian regarding the prologue. One of the first things an editor advised me of, after reviewing my MS, was to dump the prologue. The advice has been repeated several times, even in just the time I've been on the boards.

K

[Stephen Palmer]

Prologues have their uses. They're rather like teaser campaigns for films.

[Peter Graham]

Also, when they say Aproximately 40 pages, do they mean. Stop when you reach the end of the chapter instead of mid way through.

No - they mean "approximately 40 pages". Keep it clean, but don't see it as an invitation to send 65 pages if that is where the chapter ends. So, if page 40 ends half way through a sentence, but page 39 ends with a full stop, send 39 pages. If you cannot find a sentence which coincides with the page end in any of the 3-4 pages on each side of 40, just send the 40.

And if you really must use them, make sure your prologue really is a proper prologue, rather than Chapter 1 with a fake moustache, some random info dump or some accidental spoiler.

Regards,

Peter

[Esfires]

Originally Posted by Stephen Palmer

Prologues have their uses. They're rather like teaser campaigns for films.

Except they don't show the trailer for the film in the first minutes of the actual film.

[SJAB]

Originally Posted by anthorn

Looking for some helpful advice.
When a submission asks for the first 40 pages, and asks for them in order. Should I include the for the lack of a better word, Prologue, and then Chapter One?

Yes, is the simple answer.

[Anne Lyle]

Originally Posted by SJAB

Yes, is the simple answer.

Agreed. Send the first 40-ish pages of your manuscript, ending at a natural break. A "page" is only an approximation in these days of electronic submissions, but given that the standard words-per-page on a conventional typewritten manuscript (i.e. in Courier, double-spaced with 1-inch margins) is about 250, they're asking for about 10k words. For me that would be three chapters - YMMV.

[Cynric]

Originally Posted by Peter Graham

And if you really must use them, make sure your prologue really is a proper prologue, rather than Chapter 1 with a fake moustache, some random info dump or some accidental spoiler.

Love it.

[Cynric]

Originally Posted by Esfires

Except they don't show the trailer for the film in the first minutes of the actual film.

Ah, but browsing for new treats in a book shop can be like watching trailers.

I remember reading the prologue of The Sparrow in [evil mid-list-author-destroying-chain-who-are-getting-a-taste-of-their-own-medicine-from-Amazon redacted].

When I got to the last line of the prologue ("They meant no harm"), I practically ran to the till.

[anthorn]

Yeah...All helpful advice. Looking at my Chapter one, that comes up to about 40 pages double spaced NTR. It's separated into sections. I.E. Chapter One. 1. The First Days.

[Dante]

After talking to an agent, she said that she could tell whether or not she was going to like a manuscript after reading the first few pages.

That said, I would include the prologue because it is the beginning of the story. If you could submit your novel without it, then the prologue probably doesn't need to be in the book in all honesty.

A length of approximately 40 pages typically would capture the first 3 chapters of a novel, I think. If you need an additional page to finish the chapter, I don't think they're going to mind. If the chapter goes on for another 5 pages though, I think you're better off just submitting 40 and letting the story get cutoff.