Style and Grammar Resources / Courses?

[Coragem]

Hi there:

Lately I'm constantly getting a sense of "the more I learn about writing the more I realise I have to learn"!

For various reasons nothing (local writers group, online resources, "how to" books) has yet met my needs. I keep coming back to reading novels critically, taking notes, and writing / re-writing – which isn't bad, but I need more.

I "think" (hope!) the basics are in place for me. My content is well formed, my plot planned in detail. I did months of research and world-building before beginning my WIP, and much more since. I have 100,000 words written. I think my characters and use of POV are a strength.

What I feel I need help with is style and the finer points of grammar. I want to be able to tighten my prose, refine my writing, and get closer to "knowing" what I'm doing rather than feeling as if I'm doing it by instinct and trial and error.

Please could you suggest some resources that might suit. E.g., webpages, books, online courses, etc. Preferably something that will really hone in on the finer points of style.

Thanks!!!

Coragem.

[Hex]

I'm sounding like broken record, but Mark Tredinnick's Writing Well is a wonderful book on style.

[Vertigo]

I'm making an effort to read some more "literary" stuff than I would normally read and two things are coming out of that: one, I'm surprised by how much I am enjoying it and two, how much I am learning about how to really manipulate the language.

Now whether I can apply that is another question. However there is a lot to what people say that one of the things you must do to learn to write is read, read, read quality writing.

Sadly I cannot help on courses etc.

[Coragem]

Originally Posted by Vertigo

However there is a lot to what people say that one of the things you must do to learn to write is read, read, read quality writing.

Yes, I'm doing this. And I think anyone who knows their stuff will say that learning to write mostly comes down to reading critically and writing, repeat.

However, going from reading something good to writing something good is often (as you imply) a haphazard process.

For example, I enjoy reading Guy Gavriel Kay's somewhat "flowery" prose. Read it and whether I like it or not it influences my writing. Kay's style works for him – but he's GGK!!! Occasionally (whether because I'm not ready, or whatever) it results in ME writing rambling and over-elaborate material. I recently decided not to allow myself to read GGK (at least for a while)!

I'd also say, generally, it's very had to pick up on some of the really fine points of style when reading – unless you already know what to look for.

Coragem

[Vertigo]

One of the things I love about reading on ereaders is that I can very quickly tag a passage and then come back afterwards and study the tagged passages at my leisure.

[RcGrant]

I always say it, but Elements of Style is always a good one. I am also enjoying Sin and Syntax at the moment.

However, like others have said, you can't beat reading a good book. One of the writers who really makes me stop and go is William Faulkner.

[The Judge]

When it comes to questions of grammar, I really think google is your friend here. We cover most of the basics in The Toolbox, but if you want finer points then Wikipedia has an awful lot and once you've found one thing it will lead you to another eg if you look up the subjective mood it lists under "See also" conditional sentence/mood, imperative mood and subordinate clauses. Clicking on the latter gives another lot of links. You can compile your own book simply from copying and pasting the relevant pages into a folder of your own.

Meanwhile, if you want something immediately, Simon Heffer's book has gained some good reviews http://www.randomhouse.com.au/books/...099537939.aspx

As to style, to my mind there are two issues here. Firstly, there are things such as the need to write concisely, to think about word use, to be clear, to avoid the passive voice etc. These are techniques which can be learned, and having had a quick look at the book Hex recommends, I'd suggest that's a good place to start. However, from how I read your posts (and I appreciate I could be mis-reading these) you're looking for help with your style in the wider definition and to be frank, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

I don't mean to offend, but you constantly refer to Abercrombie and Gay as if they were to be copied -- which has led you to try and graft abrupt, incomplete sentences into paragraphs of long, flowing ones, and you can't see for yourself how the two just aren't meshing as you have written them. I think that copying good published writers can be a way to learn, but that means copying each one as an individual, not some unholy mish-mash of several together. You won't achieve a copy a Titian painting by using a Van Gogh technique crossed with a Canaletto.

By all means try writing passages, even scenes or chapters, in the voice of one of them, but frankly the only way you will develop a style, ie the distinct personality of your individual voice, is just to write. At present it appears that you're looking for a book which will give you your style. It won't. Only writing will do that. I really would recommend that you stop obsessing about these authors, and just get on and write the million words necessary to create your own style.

[Grimbear]

Everyone has a style - its instictive and echoes how you think and talk. Even online, in IM, from very short messages, Investigators have been able to track individual users on different sites purely through the way they use language in general, re-use phrases and structure their sentences. These users were not writers - just people commenting in forums. But - they had a distinctive style.

While trying to mimic the writing style of a particluar author is a good exercise, you should just try to improve generally in things like grammar and stretching your vocab. This will help far more than anything else.

Chances are your writing already sounds very like 'you'. So you already have a style.

[Bowler1]

Originally Posted by RcGrant

I always say it, but Elements of Style is always a good one.

I would highly recommend this little gem as well as a useful tool, but that's all it is. It gives great little pointers and good technical rules that sink into even my little yellow head - - see, all full (well, almost).

[Coragem]

Originally Posted by The Judge

I don't mean to offend, but you constantly refer to Abercrombie and Gay as if they were to be copied -- which has led you to try and graft abrupt, incomplete sentences into paragraphs of long, flowing ones, and you can't see for yourself how the two just aren't meshing as you have written them. I think that copying good published writers can be a way to learn, but that means copying each one as an individual, not some unholy mish-mash of several together. You won't achieve a copy a Titian painting by using a Van Gogh technique crossed with a Canaletto.

Wow, wow, wow, this is really unfair!!!

True, I make mistakes in my writing, and true, I tend to post in SFF Chrons when I make mistakes (surely these forums are here to help us when we're losing our way?). However, I do not copy and graft in my writing. Not ever, thank you very much. I look for pointers in all my reading and occasionally misapply techniques, but more often come out with a good result. However, until we re-name SFF Chrons "show off chrons" I won't be posting the large part of my work that is actually pretty damn good.

Coragem.

[The Judge]

Sorry. I think you're misinterpreting what I've tried to say. Undoubtedly my fault for not saying it properly.

When I have read your posts I've understood you to say that you've attempted to imitate Guy's and Abercrombie's techniques of long and short sentences respectively because you admire the way these writers have made those sentences work. If I've misunderstood that, I apologise. My point is, that taking the style of two disparate authors and trying to make them work together is unlikely to be successful for anyone who isn't a writing genius, and I'd recommend you avoid trying to meld the two as you appear to have been doing.

Clearly, since I've haven't read any of the work you feel to be pretty damn good -- since you haven't put it up for critiquing -- I can only go on those extracts which I have seen.

[Toby Frost]

I don't think literal copying is being implied here. It's more the idea that emulating the style of two very different writers in one piece is probably very difficult without the two mixing and some sort of third style emerging at the end - assuming that things don't become a jumble on the way. I like Mervyn Peake and Raymond Chandler, and have tried to emulate their styles in different stories, but I think trying to fit them together would produce either a strange mess or an overall style not obviously derived from either of them - and perhaps my own voice. That, I think, is the point being made here.

[r_j_dando]

Style, for me, comes from years of writing. I find there is a particular flow to my work when it's working well, a certain level of description, and a cadence and rhythm that feels like mine. However, I've been writing for over twenty years, and have 'done my time' (a.k.a. written over one million words of fiction), and I think that helps. Your "voice" is one that only you can find - nobody can teach it to you. Working out what you like about other writers is a good start, but I think a good writing group can help. If you can figure out where your strengths lie (dialogue, description, plot), and where your weaknesses lie (over-describing, stilted conversations, unbelievable plot twists or holes), you can work to hone those areas. Doing this will improve your own style at the same time, and bring you closer to where you want to be. Read, write, edit, read some more, write some more, look at which bits of your work you like, which bits you don't, and the differences. You'll find that your work is influenced by what you read - and that's okay as well. Eventually you'll balance out somewhere, and that will be your style.

Grammar is fairly basic. Read On Writing by Stephen King, read a basics of grammar book if you feel the need, but mostly it comes from knowing what looks right on the page. Incomplete sentence fragments are okay. Long, rambling descriptions are fine. Having a balance between these helps with the pacing of a novel. As long as you can grasp details like putting punctuation inside speech marks, two spaces after a full stop, and knowing how and where to use a semi-colon, that should suffice.

[Coragem]

Originally Posted by Toby Frost

I don't think literal copying is being implied here. It's more the idea that emulating the style of two very different writers in one piece is probably very difficult without the two mixing and some sort of third style emerging at the end - assuming that things don't become a jumble on the way. I like Mervyn Peake and Raymond Chandler, and have tried to emulate their styles in different stories, but I think trying to fit them together would produce either a strange mess or an overall style not obviously derived from either of them - and perhaps my own voice. That, I think, is the point being made here.

Thanks for the above.

I have apologised to The Judge. I didn't take her post in the correct spirit and missed some very good points.

However, I think a few people may have got the wrong idea about my approach in the light of my posts at Chrons. Obviously the questions and snippets of my writing that I post here don't reflect my work as a whole. I have never tried to jumble styles together or copy styles. What I try to do is pick up bits and pieces from all my reading and store them to one side to make a sort of 'tool box'. Then when it truly seems appropriate I can pull out a tool.

For example, one of my characters is a sort of private investigator. From my reading (e.g., Richard Morgan) I've noticed that grapples and fragments give a harder feel, more appropriate for a 'gritty' context and this one character's POV. I wouldn't use this style for all POVs, but it's a great tool.

When I began this thread it's because I was hoping for more guidance on stylistic things like how to use good verbs, not adverbs, not using passive voice, etc. I feel like I've been writing on instinct too long, too self taught. I have ordered Elements of Style and Writing Well …

Coragem.

[Esfires]

You also might check to see if any local or online colleges offer free course audits. A semester or two of the proper college-level English course might help you out.

As for style (as in, voice) don't worry at all about that. You can't force a certain style out of your writing convincingly, it's something that just comes naturally through experience. A writer doesn't create his style, he finds it.