Female form of address for officers'

[Bowler1]

Thank you everyone for the input and as ever the surprising additional information!

[Blackrook]

My understanding is that you don't use "sir" or "ma'am" in referring to non-com's. You call them "sargeant."

[springs]

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure it's commisioned officers only, too - I had to promote one of my characters so she could be referred to as ma'am.

[Vertigo]

Warrant Officers are referred to as sir or ma'am. They are NCO's above the rank of sergeant - sergeant-major, company sergeant-major, regimental sergeant-major. I'm not sure but I believe the naval equivalents are the petty officers, not sure about the RAF.

Also this might be very different in the US army. The basic rank of sergeant In the US army is below that in the British Army (probably about the same as corporal). A US army infantry sergeant will generally be in charge of a fire team of about 4, whereas in the UK army the sergeant is the platoon second-in-commander (second to the lieutenant who commands). Also I think the definition of warrant officer in the US is somewhat different to the British warrant officer.

The distinction by the way is technical. All ranks about private are actually technically 'officers':

Officers - officers by commision
Warrant Officers - officers by warrant
NCOs - officers by seniority

[The Judge]

And anyway, this is SF set in the future with aliens so things could be very different. Bowler, use the terms you want to use. (Except "mam"...)

[springs]

Although, originally I took that attitude, that it was up to me, in the future, but I did get many comments that the structure/roles/titles weren't right and it pulled some readers out of it.

[ctg]

Originally Posted by The Judge

And anyway, this is SF set in the future with aliens so things could be very different. Bowler, use the terms you want to use. (Except "mam"...)

Actually, I disagree on one occasion. Use "Mam" to give a flavour to the character, but make it so that it comes in the right place and adds up to the context.

[Bowler1]

I think I'll stick close to current models. The armies of the world seem to have been operating this way for sometime and I guess will do so going forward into my fictional future.

For some reason and on this thread the use of - ma'am - feels correct when addressing, Judge. So - Yes, ma'am.

In Dublin we use the term 'Mammy' when talking to our Mothers. So after a little reflection, writing 'Mam', would have me picturing my Mummy all the time. That won't work for me, not in the middle of a gory battle scene.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by The Judge

(Except "mam"...)

Particularly if she's your mother.

[ctg]

Originally Posted by Ursa major

Particularly if she's your mother.

"Yes, Mam." Jane blinked her eyes and looked innocently Mister Bear. "You got such a dirty thoughts, soldier."

[Bowler1]

Originally Posted by ctg

"Yes, Mam." Jane blinked her eyes and looked innocently Mister Bear. "You got such a dirty thoughts, soldier."

That made me laugh, I have to admit it worried me that it did!

[Gumboot]

Originally Posted by Arkose

I can't think of my drill sergeant as anything but ma'am*. see frightened us so much that everyone would slip with the sir. If you fumbled and tried to recover she would yell at you more, you just said "sir" or "ma'am" with confidence it seemed not to matter. I rather would have a 6'-5", muscle building, drill sergeant than her any day. She was flat out mean, We kinda thought she had to compensate for her size and sex. **

* Anytime I get frustrated about arguing with my wife, I think about being yelled at for 6+ weeks, from a 5 foot petite women I could not stand, and think "Life is good."

**When a drill sergeant says, "I don't want to hear, I don't know. Make up anything. Say a freaking pink elephant did it," Don't actually say "a pink elephant did it."

Calling a Drill Sergeant "Sir" or "Ma'am" is a good way to really piss them off. They should be referred to as "Sergeant" or "Staff" if they're a Staff Sergeant.

"Sir? Do you see anything on this uniform indicating an officer? What does three up and three down mean to you, Airman?"

[Vertigo]

Ah that's the difference between American and British (and I'm guessing New Zealand) armed forces. The Americans, I believe, do use sir to sergeants whereas we aren't supposed to unless they are a warrant officer and senior to us (and so far as I was concerned us included very junior second lieutenants! ).

[Gumboot]

Originally Posted by Vertigo

Ah that's the difference between American and British (and I'm guessing New Zealand) armed forces. The Americans, I believe, do use sir to sergeants whereas we aren't supposed to unless they are a warrant officer and senior to us (and so far as I was concerned us included very junior second lieutenants! ).

The only instance in the US Military where a Sergeant should be addressed as "sir" or "ma'am" is a USMC recruit addressing a USMC Drill Instructor.

Otherwise it's the same as Commonwealth armed forces.

ETA. I should add, I was presuming Arkose wasn't talking about the Marines because "Drill Sergeant" is a US Army term, in the Marines they're called "Drill Instructors" - calling them a "Drill Sergeant" is seen as highly offensive, akin to calling a Marine a "soldier".

[Ursa major]

As an aside, is the male form of a dress for officers called a kilt...?