A few thoughts after season 2

[The Imp]

No one seems to be using the other board much, so I'll put this here so everyone can see it. There WILL be spoilers for non-readers, and mods, feel free to move it if necessary.


First, hats off to Michelle Fairly. I was skeptical about her being cast for the role of Cat, but she has absolutely nailed it. I still have a little trouble with her age and also the fact that she looks so much like an actress friend of mine. It's very disconcerting.

Alfie Allen has really done amazing things with Theon. I was ready top follow him after his inspirational speech in the last episode. Likewise Sophie Turner has gone from being very lightweight (in my opinion of course) to developing great depth in Sansa's character.

On the flip side, Kit Harington has been underwhelming at times during this season. This is probably my only complaint about any actor in the show, other than the casting of Gregor in season 2.

As for the story itself, it's still upsetting to be how much the wolves have been underused, and along with that no 3 eyed crowed dreams for Bran. I also really wanted them to get the Tower of Joy in somehow. The House of the Undying was disappointing, although I think I understand why they left so much out, actually everything. I'm not happy with not having Ramsay show up. I thought the whole thing with The Halfhand was poorly done, and I still have no idea why they deemed it necessary to change Jeyne Westerling to a woman from Volantis.

I love the series, but it could have been better

[zmorgas]

I was really disappointed about what they did to Robb. In the books he married Jeyne to keep her honour intact and in the series he marries the Volantis chick just because he likes her, thus really defying the Freys. Well, it makes the Red Wedding not that extremely undeserved as in the books...

[Koopa]

w8, series 2 is airing?
I have some serious catching up to do then.

[Needle]

As I try to think of the entire 2nd season, I find it difficult to see as a whole. First I thought it was me, but now I think it may reflect my view of the season. There were high points which really shine through and things that seriously irked me! Yet they refuse to fuse as a whole. I have to wonder if ACoK needed 2 seasons in order to be told properly. yes, I understand the limitations of TV but I would think HBO would want to get as much from it as possible as it has proven hugely popular.

So anyway here goes, my highs and lows!

First on the highs has to be Peter Dinklage! I love the Tyrion in my head and despite Peter being way to pretty! I love him on the screen as well! He is serious when he needs to be, sneers oh so well, and when he cried I truly wanted to strangle that ##### Shea my self to save him the pain of doing so!!

In total agreement with Imp on Michelle Fairly as Sansa! I have long thought that Sansa will become the true player of the game and she is doing so on screen. When she spoke with Joff before he went to the battlements, I was like YES! you tell him girl!

As you all know, Arya is my girl! Maisie Williams has only reinforced that! I think she is fantastic and can not wait to see more of her! This is one of the changes I actually liked-having her as cup bearer to Tywin instead of Roose. It gave us more insight into Arya and quite a lot into Tywin. Their scenes together were among the best.

I almost feel sorry for Jack Gleeson! He is so awesome as Joff that his career may be over! I will never be able to see him as anyone else! I will always see the perfect sneering face of Joff and hate him all over again!

I think Emilia Clarke has done a great job as Dany also. I am not pleased with some of the changes and ommissions (the House of the Undying, chief among them) in her storyline but she too is becoming the Dany I see in my head! I am choosing to ignore the Dany in ADWD and keep the one in my head for her reappearance in WoW!

Also with ya Imp on Alfie Allen as Theon. Felt so bad for him when his father treated him like dog poo and was ready to go kill some northmen during his speech!

Not so highs:

Too many changes in Jon's story! You had to really be paying attention to know he did not really go over to the wildlings! First he asks to go ranging, Then it appears he was left behind by his brothers. Only a very short, half-ass talk, without clear meaning says he did not.

Jeyne not Westerling! Robb does not even know his brothers are dead, no injury, just sex then hey let's get married! #### the Freys! I don't care!

Last (for now!) but not least- Reek, Reek, where is Reek!!?? Not happy! Changes many things, the whole burning of Winterfell now makes no sense!

[Mouse]

Heh heh! I don't think I've ever seen so many exclamation marks in a single post before, Needle.

I've got nothing to add, really. I enjoyed it. I even liked Peter Dinklage this time round.

[A-roc]

Just to echo a few things, yeah, Alfie Allen as Theon is great. Disappointed about the Westerlings and Reek, they maybe could have Roose run that whole story line at Winterfell.

Curious about Jojen and Meera, because I heard they will make it into the show. Also, I was thinking about what it's like for viewers who haven't read the books, when Jaqen turns around is all uglied out. Last, I really liked the Others scene at the end. The creepy old Other guy with lines on his face was unsettling. Did the others bring the cold or does the cold bring the others?

[Boaz]

SPOILER ALERT regarding Robb's marriage and his future!!!! You have been warned.

This discussion is about the HBO show, but it reflects/mirrors the books so I'll comment regarding what I think will happen going forward.

Robb met this girl (I don't even know her name) after a battle against Lannisters. She was a wandering healer assisting the fallen. But she had been with the Lannisters before the battle... I think.

Fast forward to the end of ASOS. The Westerlings are honored, by Tywin Lannister, for their part in the downfall of Robb Stark.

So who is this new bride of Robb's? She says she's from the Free Cities. Well, Jeyne Westerling's (great?) grandmother was from the Free Cities. We know that Tywin has been upset that he's been continually beaten by Robb on the battlefield. So how will Tywin get rid of Robb if he cannot do it in the field? Sexy, little, brunette Mrs. Stark is lalready an agent of Tywin. It is known.

She may end up being Jeyne Westerling in disguise for the show. Who knows... But she is an intentional trap for Robb. It is known.

Okay.... as for the acting...

Dinklage is memorable. Allen is great. Gleeson has been wickedly delicious. He truly is that little &%#@ Joffrey! One of the guys I watch the show with curses every time Gleeson is on screen, "I can't wait for that &^%#$ to get his!"

You guys know I'm an active Jon hater. He's young and moody. He's a whiner with a magic sword. So I think that's a tough role for Harrington to play. He does not get any great lines. He does not get any obvious jerks to play off, except Craster and the writers had Craster kick his ass. He does not get any heroics, except for freeing Ygritte and the writers had him keep her. He does not generate any sympathy, except for Orell's attcks on him and Ghost and the writers took that away. He does not get charged with a great mission, except from Qhorin and the writers took that away. His written part from GRRM was that of a moody and entitled teen heart throb and the writers turned it into the role of a wet noodle. All he gets to do is trudge through snow.... and neither Lawrence Olivier, Rex Harrison, nor David Niven could do more with Jon Snow that Harrington is doing... give him a break.

Edit: Brienne should get some votes in the upcoming tourney.

[Eversummer]

I agree with Ser Boaz about "Mrs. Stark" that she might be Jeyne Westerling in the end and that she spied for the Lannister inside the Wolves' camps. I also seem to remember that his grandmother/greatgranma is Maegi/Maggi that Cersei dreaded when she was a girl--or was it just one of my assumptions?

The Disappointment: No shows: Jojen, Meera, Patchface, Shireen, the MF Ramsay "Reek" Bolton

Exquisite actors: Peter Dinklage as the Demon Monkey and of course, Maisie Williams for the Little Animal Arya (Cersei's words, not mine).

[svalbard]

Good piece of detective work, Boaz, like it .

On the missing characters. I was reading an interview with Bienhoff?? and he was saying that they were conscious of how many new characters they introduced in Series 2. Therefore they held back on the Reed siblings and Reek, Stannis's Queen etc. who will all be introduced in Series 3(I hope).

[Boaz]

The size of the cast should either be a casting director's dream or nightmare. Where is BFS?

[Keldaris]

I've been loving the show so far! A few disappointments tho....

1: Lack of direwolves...I was so happy to see the scene with Robb, Greywind, and Jaime at the beginning of the season, then almost nothing since And the "wolf dreams"? When warging becomes a thing in the series non book readers will be somewhat confused..

2: The battle for kings landing...I feel it could have been done better....one big explosion and goodbye Davos? it was much more dramatic in the books! Tyrions chain on the river, Davos watching his sons ships burn and break. Tyrion vs ser mandon invloved broken boats,churning water, and fire! Tyrion thought he was coming to save him, gets attacked and saved by pod...in the show tyrion turns around mandon swings and pod shoves a spear through his eye. I didn't see joff launch any antler men,The hound never got his song, and where was renly's ghost?

3.Missing characters...Mira,Jojen,Reek, tyrion's mountain clans,BFS,Cleos(more on this next),3 eyed crow

4.Changes....
Instead of cleos frey we got alton lannister, at first I figured it would just be name change to avoid confusion(IE. Asha/Yara(?))....NOPE! we got Jaime brutally murdering his cousin in an escape attempt...GRRM made me like Jaime, HBO makes me hate him >.<
Quarth..House of the undying was a let down. Didn't like what they did with the story(killing the 12 etc). Season one, sadly, forced me to see full frontal theon...But danny can't wear a proper tokar?
Jon running off after Ygritte, then getting captured? I'ld much rather have seen Jon and Qhorin preparing for a last stand...Jon's oath to the half-hand etc. Would have made more sense to viewers too...I have friends cursing jons name as a traitor at the moment >.>

Over all tho I'm loving every minute of the show.Bornn's a badass,Tyrion is everything I had hoped for, hearing certain quotes from the books(you know nothing,the night is dark..etc) make me happy, Joff Makes me want him dead more than the books did, Brienne is a beast, The dragons look good(should be getting bigger at hit point tho), and the white walkers were epic!

[I, Brian]

I've really enjoyed season 2, far more than I would have expected.

On the one hand, the casting is absolutely brilliant - characters in the books I felt little for have really shone through, not least Davos.

On the other hand, I have noticed story changes - but in order to get these into a more concise medium such as TV, I really don't think they have distracted from the story, merely redcated it in a more abridged form.

If anyone here has ever seen a film and then read the novel it was supposedly based from, the lack of major changes has been really refreshing. I think the TV series has made every effort to keep to the spirit of the books, which is no mean feat.

Am really looking forward to Storm of Swords, and am really hoping it can get past the potential quagmire of AFFC and ADWD and put these both into an ordered and sympathetic manner that will retain the TV viewers.

Certainly the series appears to have become quite iconic. I just hope it stays that way because the treatment really has been good so far, I think. Minor quibbles, far outweighed by the positives IMO.

[Boaz]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

If anyone here has ever seen a film and then read the novel it was supposedly based from, the lack of major changes has been really refreshing. I think the TV series has made every effort to keep to the spirit of the books, which is no mean feat. I think. Minor quibbles, far outweighed by the positives IMO.

Agreed. I hope the show continues. It is so much more focused than TrueBlood, it's replacement on Sunday nights. TB used to be a guilty pleasure. It started off with a strong underlying theme of civil rights over which a super sexy, sleepy town, Vampire story was told. Bill's humanity, Sam's mystery, Tara's frailities/belligerence, Lafayette's ethics, Andy's ambitions, Jason's addictions, Terry's nightmares, Arlene's gossip, Nan's scheming, Eric's ruthlessness, Jessica's innocence, Pam's decadence, and Sookie's insecurities were all compelling character attributes. Toss in Sookie's kindly grandmother, Tara's abusive mother, and Hoyt's domineering mother to the southern heat and it was great fun... at the very least it was a guilty pleasure. Now it's characters are meandering through unimaginative plots and all manner of supernatural creatures... the mystique is gone. The characters are uninspiring. The comparisons of civil rights have been dismissed. All it has is sex appeal... but if I've lost interest in the characters, how sexy can it be?

Sorry, Brian. I know the point was major changes, but I've not read the books upon which TB is based. I just meant to say that the starting spirit of TB has been lost. I hope AGOT does not follow suit.

[LazyAugust]

I absolutely hate the way they've treated Jon Snow this season. They turned him into a blundering moron who get's Qhorin's men killed out of pure foolishness. Scouting the Skirling Pass and retreating towards the Fist losing members of their group one by one until it's only Jon and Qhorin left was an amazing story to read. Seeing Jon lose Ygritte rather than letting her go and then watching him chase her twice only to end up being captured made him seem pathetically incompetent.

Another thing that irked me were the changes to Dany's story. Getting her Dragons stolen? What a terrible mother she was made out to be. Her story was painfully dull and slow and obviously stretched out just so that we could see the House of the Undying in the last episode rather than earlier. Not happy with how that turned out either. Not a single on screen hint at R+L=J? Disappointed doesn't describe it.

Robb falling for Talisa of Volantis rather than marrying Jeyne Westerling to keep her honour intact was another unnecessary change. I have a theory about that though that I might start a separate thread for if there isn't already one discussing it.

Theon's story ended abrubtly and there was no sign given at all that it was Bolton men who razed Winterfell. Not really sure why that was filmed in such a way.

Back to north of the Wall: I don't like the "White Walkers" at all. Their description in the books makes them sound haunting and ethereal with pale armour that pours from their body when they are struck with obsidian. These are just strange wirey creatures. I've also seen too many non-readers that are clearly confused and think that White Walkers == Wights which we know isn't true. Could have been handled a lot better by making them look different. Also no idea why one of them saw Sam at the end when he was left behind. This had better not mean we don't get to see any of the action on top of the Fist next season.

What I find most irritating is that a lot of the changes I've discussed here were not because of big budget cuts or being unable to cast enough people. Some of them seemingly have no explanation and are completely unnecessary. They would be forgiveable if it wasn't for the fact that the changes are inferior to the original.

[FaitLoupe]

Personally season 2 strayed waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much from the guts of the book for it to be in any way satisfying or enjoyable for me. Loved the acting, everything was spot on there, but over-all the entire season seemed like filler and fell short IMO.

After all the hype from producers/directors about how huge the budget for S2 was and how there would be "really complex and expansive battle scenes" ... there really was nothing to come close to the hype they promised.

I basically spent the entire second season waiting for it to get better, but it never did. Too many crucial points were cut. I mean, they didn't even write Arya's escape from Harrenhal correctly, it's a huge turning point in her character arc when she takes matters into her own hands and kills the guard (which sets her up for future growth).