Prometheus (2012) discussion - *SPOILERS!*

[Welsh Andy]

Originally Posted by Phyrebrat

Before I go I want someone to explain two things to me. I'm sure there is a reason for this which I missed as it is far too big an error to have made accidentally; In Aliens we are told that the moon is LV426 yet in Prometheus we were shown LV223. What happened/will happen?

Where is the fossilised Space Jockey with chest burster hole?

First post on the forum
I have to agree with folk that Prometheus was a turkey. A very pretty and stylish turkey but a turkey all the same.

With regards the quoted wee bit up yonder ^^ the movie took place on a different moon/planet then the previous films. The ship in Alien/s is a different ship and the Space Jockey is a different Space Jockey. I assume that the Space Jockey found in the first film will make an appearance in any sequel that is to appear.
I do kinda hope they make a sequel but I hope it begins with Bobby Ewing in the shower and Pam realising it was all just a dream...

oops didn't spot TheTomG's post... :/

[clovis-man]

Human evolution, Hmm. Even Louis Leakey referred to it as the "theory" of evolution.

The first engineer shown in the film: When was that? Before there was life on Earth? Can't tell. So the DNA strands he sloughs off may be sui generis or something that bonded to other existing life. I certainly wouldn't worry over quanititative things. After all, humans and chimpanzees are almost identical in their DNA.

The cave paintings/Egyptian glyphs, etc.: Calling cards? Seems likely, but why an invitation to a military installation? And why wait so long for the RSVP?

What went wrong at the installation? Seems obvious. Humankind is often (rightly) criticized for hubris, so why not aliens too. But it seems the last surviving engineer in the scene didn't get the memo that the others who were seen fleeing in the holo show got. Why else was he so single minded about launching the ship toward Earth? I actually have a speculated answer for that: In the early days of the filming of Scott's first Alien, the images of H.R. Giger were used not only to create the seminal creature, but also to detail some of the relationship with the "space jockeys". If you look at his images carefully, you can easily see a quasi-religious symbiotic/parasitic relationship. A cult, if you will, which motivated the jockey/engineers to sacrifice themselves irrespective of any secular logic. The statuary and bas-relief (Giger again, it would seem) in Prometheus could easily (rather strongly) hint at that. And Dr. Shaw's cross could well be the counterpoint to that.

Characters and story: Although she did a creditable job overall, Noomi Rapace seemed sappily optimistic before finally confronting reality. The rest of the scientific crew seemed too stupid to live. But that seems to have fulfilled itself. Charlize Theron's character seemed to be the only one who had her head screwed on straight. But she was the embodiment of the intrinsically evil company, so had to get squished by the space ship. Why was Guy Pearce's character so obsessed with the quest? Just go back to look at any number of old SF movies to see similar characters, e.g., John Hoyt's millionaire in 1951's When Worlds Collide.

I forgot to mention that I actually enjoyed the film. I forgive Ridley Scott all his trespasses.

[ScottSF]

The more I think about it the more sad it makes me. Could have been a masterpiece but bad plot again and also kind of anti-science. Whenever I hear someone refer to evolution as "Darwinism" I'm on guard that I'm talking to a creationist that has no understanding of the subject. Suggesting the space jokey genome somehow matches humans is just plain ridiculous and contradicts the opening scene. Sigh. I've decided I will try my best to forget the plot and buy it when it comes out on disk and watch it with the sound off while listening to Peter Gabriel.

[ScottSF]

Also I had no problem with the film not being enough like Alien, in fact it seemed it was under pressure to be more like it than it needed to be with the self c-section trying to outdo the famous chest bursting scene.

[Huttman]

It's my opinion that with all the bad press prequels get, they were trying to make it just different enough not to directly associate this with the alien franchise, with the proverbial link at the end of a drawn out trilogy of plotholes to avoid connection of said franchise until the revealing moment when the average movie goer will say; "Ah-Ha! They are related!"

[clovis-man]

After a little digging around, I found a Giger image that was being discussed as possible for inclusion in the first Alien film. You can see the ritualistic flavor. Ultimately, Scott and the film producers excluded it. At least that's what I remember hearing in 1979.

Perhaps the engineers didn't dislike humans, but just wanted to be able to include them in their cultish behavior. And perhaps that's why David's head got twisted off: He wasn't human.

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum...oglyphicsa.jpg

[Warren_Paul]

Originally Posted by clovis-man

Perhaps the engineers didn't dislike humans, but just wanted to be able to include them in their cultish behavior. And perhaps that's why David's head got twisted off: He wasn't human.
[/IMG]

The 'Engineer' seemed pretty happy to kill everyone he saw. Here is my take on it:

The very beginning of the movie, where we see an Engineer watching the ship leave I believe was on Earth, and was facing some sort of punishment.
Taking the drink was some form of suicide, I think, but when he fell into the water, there was an adverse reaction. He broke down into molecules, which we saw floating in the water. Through evolution, those molecules eventually formed the human race. Hence, the 'we were created by the Engineers' theory.

The Engineers clearly came back and discovered the human race developing on Earth and figured out what happened. They decided to create a bioweapon of mass-destruction to destroy the human race.


What doesn't make sense to me is that the Engineers don't appear to know the location on Earth until David plucks it out of the map, essentially telling the Engineers where to find the human race. If they had already been to Earth several times, then why did they need David to show them? And why leave it until now?

Clearly their bio-research project got out of control and turned on the Engineers, killing them all on the planet, before they could escape. Otherwise they'd already be on their way to Earth.




There is a possibility that the Space Jockey in Alien isn't actually an Engineer at all. They drew a lot of attention to the periodical cramping spasms Elizabeth got. The pain came and went, not consistent with the constant pain she would have every time she moved from the c-section. It is possible that she, through the pregnancy, became infected and had an alien growing in her. Being female, that alien would likely be a queen. What if it was Elizabeth controlling the ship, the alien burst out of her, and she crashed on the planet from the first movie? She would look like a Space Jockey because you have to wear the armour to control the ship. Any message she left, using the technology of the alien ship, could possibly be garbled, or come out in the Engineer's language, or deteriorate with time, or is altered from wearing the suit.

It's just a theory, but makes sense to me.


Overall I have to say, the movie was terrible... So far only Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 have been any good, imo. Alien 4, AVP, Prometheus... all rubbish. I wanted to like Prometheus, really did, but sorely disappointed.

[rune]

I got to see this the other week. I enjoyed it better than I expected, but it didnt tell us many new things. We already had an idea what happened prior from the first Alien movie. This one felt like a step towards more movies. Visually I thought it looked great

[Lucyycul]

i lied it i just thought it took too long to get the action going.

[alchemist]

I watched it last night and, overall, I have to say I enjoyed it and am glad I went. However, some of the plot points were so glaring that by the time I woke up this morning they were really annoying me.
James and others have already listed them in detail, but the one thing that rankled the most were the cliched, stupid decisions the characters made; such as walking straight into the pyramid, removing helmets where there is a potential biohazard, and the "biologist" who pokes the alien snake creature. Isn't there a quality control mechanism somewhere in the writing process? Or do they think the cinema-going public are too stupid to notice or care?

I would like to think that the writers have answers to the questions posed here, however bizarre they may be (e.g. Q: why give directions to their military research planet rather than a homeworld? A: this was an "expiry date" for humanity. When you're advanced enough to develop spaceflight, you'll find the aliens and ensure your own destruction, hence preventing your destroying the galaxy with your warmongering ways), but I'm 99% certain they just haven't got a clue. The fact that Damon Lindelof was involved in Lost is telling; a series that disappeared up its own fundament.

The other thing that narks me is Guy Pearce's involvement. As Moonbat says, why have him playing an unconvincin-looking old guy, when there are a host of elderly actors who could have done it. I was expecting the younger Guy to show up, explaining all, but no.

I would still recommend it -- the visuals were stunning and it was reasonably exciting -- but it's very flawed, in much the same way as the Star Trek reboot was.

[iansales]

It may be that the sequel shows Pearce as Weyland in flashbacks, hence casting him. Also, he was in some of the online advertising as a young Weyland, but that does seem a bit like a daft reason to cast him.

[Aun Doorback]

Alchemist - I'm with you on everything you say

[alchemist]

Originally Posted by iansales

It may be that the sequel shows Pearce as Weyland in flashbacks, hence casting him.

That actually sounds quite plausible.

Here's a very detailed review of some of the controversial points raised. It's worth a read.
http://www.hitfix.com/motion-capture...-and-questions

[TheTomG]

10 things about the making of Prometheus explains the casting of a young person for an old man - there was originally going to be a sequence where he was a young man.

Now if only we can have the other annoyances about this movie patched up! Oh wait, that would require re-filming it - maybe it's in need of a reboot?

http://io9.com/5917639/10-things-you...-of-prometheus

[PTeppic]

Originally Posted by Warren_Paul

The very beginning of the movie, where we see an Engineer watching the ship leave I believe was on Earth, and was facing some sort of punishment.
Taking the drink was some form of suicide, I think, but when he fell into the water, there was an adverse reaction. He broke down into molecules, which we saw floating in the water. Through evolution, those molecules eventually formed the human race. Hence, the 'we were created by the Engineers' theory.

The Engineers clearly came back and discovered the human race developing on Earth and figured out what happened. They decided to create a bioweapon of mass-destruction to destroy the human race.


What doesn't make sense to me is that the Engineers don't appear to know the location on Earth until David plucks it out of the map, essentially telling the Engineers where to find the human race. If they had already been to Earth several times, then why did they need David to show them? And why leave it until now?

Ah - that actually makes a kind of sense for their behaviour, though how they were able to deduce what had happened in such a short space of time and from David introducing them (we could have evolved naturally, at some point).

As for the question, that world had been dormant for 2000 years, apparently the result of a bio-emergency when their pets got away with them. They've been "accidentally" awoken now. They may have been to thousands of worlds and effectively obeyed the Prime Directive (notwithstanding they didn't forsee a dissolving body accidentally creating evolutionary life). As such, they wouldn't know which world we came from until the remaining Engineer was awoken.