less than macho male characters

[springs]

Okay, so crisis in confidence here - do all our sff main male protagonists have to be chisel chinned, macho guys with no self doubt (and/or massive nervous breakdowns to overcome.) Any that move out of the mould successfully?

I can think of plenty in mainstream literature - Gatsby, Rhett (yes, despite the women and the movie, he was less than straightforward...) but I'm struggling to find sff ones. (probably I'm too panicked to come up with any.)

I wondered about Paul Atreides who is less than conventional... but even he is quite macho in ways...

I suppose a no gives me a unique selling point, which, to management consultants is gold.... but I think I'd rather have a half unique selling point any examples. Please....

[Mouse]

I love non-macho boys. (Pfft, you've read Ambrose haven't you?)

Examples... um... Fitz from the Farseer books? He's not massively macho. Although he can take care of himself. Fat Nevare from RH's Soldier Son books is probably a better example.

Richard in Neverwhere! Aha. There you go.

I will come back to you.

[HareBrain]

My protagonist lies on the floor snivelling whenever he has to do magic, so I'm definitely in your camp. But also, Bilbo Baggins? Thomas Covenant? Arthur Dent? Pazel Pathkendle? Anyone dreamed up by Robert Holdstock?

I think I'd find it harder to think of any who were really macho, to be honest. Except Conan.

[springs]

Okay, and breathing deeply, thankyou... I loved both Ambrose and Orc... and don't want a conventional lot of characters, neccessarily. Just, you know that moment, when you think uh-oh..... (now, Conan... nah, couldn't write him with a straight face.)

[Mouse]

Nathan from the Bartimaeus books. Nathan from Death of an Ordinary Man. (Ok, does urban fantasy count? Cos that's full of weeds.) They're main characters.

edit: thanks springs.

[allmywires]

I specialise in non-macho guys. I love them! Most of the men in my stuff are less badass than the women, to be honest. Turn that trope on its head, springs!

(I can't think of any examples right now, my brain is melted from the sun and meringues)

[AnyaKimlin]

I hope they work or Angus and Socrates don't stand a chance. I know you disagree but I still think Angus is a bit of a pathetic wimp lol Gus from my urban fantasy is closer but is also at least seventy.

[springs]

Hee, now you're seeing why I don't agree; I don't think blokes have to mega macho to be - um - interesting. Actually now I've calmed down (been calmed down) I'm trying to think of how many macho types I've liked.... Heathcliff, maybe, but even he had his pitiful side...

[Weird Era]

I think if you look at REAL guys, (Haha) its rare to find one who's a complete macho. Most machos probably (this is my educated assumption through being a non- macho guy) have some kind of soft spot, or maybe are trying to hide something under the veil of macho-ness, so maybe it'd be cool to have that in a character somehow.

My preference is to have just have well rounded characters: each and everyone is badass in a certain aspect, both men and women. I think complete Machos can get just as boring as the classic female tropes of the passive but beautiful damsel in distress

[allmywires]

Perhaps this needs its own version of my thread... Non-Macho Male Characters

[Weird Era]

Or Macho vs Non-Macho?

[Mouse]

When we say 'macho' do we mean butch? Or just manly? Cos Conan's probably traditionally macho, but I'd describe, say, James Bond as macho too.

Or macho as in 'perfect' man. Strong, smart, handsome. I hate those guys.

[Weird Era]

I suppose...it could be either? But I personally see Macho as kind of like a typical 'man's man' or tough guy. James Bond is more, as you say 'perfect' (in some people's opinion :P) Perfect man, and I'd described him as kind of...gallant, instead of macho

[springs]

Um, I suppose conventional hero was what I meant, able to rise above whatever happens to them and get over it quickly... face it without any doubts, that sort of thing. Which makes me think that Weird Era is right - how many real people actually do what characters in books do. And then I read it and say, pah, not convinced....

[Mouse]

Originally Posted by springs1971

Um, I suppose conventional hero was what I meant, able to rise above whatever happens to them and get over it quickly... face it without any doubts, that sort of thing.

Ah. The smug ones. I especially hate the smug ones.