A question about warging

[Kharon]

Originally Posted by juleska

It definitely fights against the warg. This is covered pretty thoroughly in the ADWD prologue with Varamyr. Also, Hodor resists Bran strongly in the beginning, but now kind of "retreats" in a sort of fearful way until Bran's intrusion passes. That's why it bothers me so much when Bran wargs into Hodor. I don't think it's right.

I mean, can someone resist the warg?
I imagine this, as the battle of the minds/souls. Animals are weak, and Hodor is simple minded, so not a real challange.

Juleska, do you mean abomination?

[The Imp]

Originally Posted by Kharon

I mean, can someone resist the warg?
I imagine this, as the battle of the minds/souls. Animals are weak, and Hodor is simple minded, so not a real challange.

Juleska, do you mean abomination?

Thistle fights Varamyr tooth and nail and claws her own eyes out rather than submit.

[juleska]

I don't like using words like "abomination" because it projects a sense of moral superiority. But I just don't think it's right. I cut Bran *some* slack because he's young, but the act of taking over Hodor when it so clearly terrifies him so much seems to run counter to Bran's character. And I don't mean his literary character as defined by GRRM, I mean his moral character. That's why it bothers me. I think Bran is better than that and despite his youth I do think he knows better than that.

Needle, thanks for the reference, that's just what I was looking for. I suppose that's the least complicated way to handle it, because having your soul / spirit in 2 different bodies would have to raise other questions.

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I don't think we will ever have a diffinitive answer about what happens when people are warging and the extent of that ability, but I must point something out.

When Arya is looking through the cats eyes, she is actively fighting the kindly man. That is how she is able to figure out who it was that was fighting her. She tell's the kindly man that he was the one fighting her, and then he gives her her sight back. So there must be a degree to which you can extend that power.

[Keebs411]

Originally Posted by ArstenWhitebeard

I don't think we will ever have a diffinitive answer about what happens when people are warging and the extent of that ability, but I must point something out.

When Arya is looking through the cats eyes, she is actively fighting the kindly man. That is how she is able to figure out who it was that was fighting her. She tell's the kindly man that he was the one fighting her, and then he gives her her sight back. So there must be a degree to which you can extend that power.

i need to do a re-read but for some reason i dont remeber her actually fighting him. i thought he would just sneak up and hit her or trip her up which she would then spin to react to. So i was under the impression shed warged into the cat just to see who snuck up on her becasue she couldnt figure it out. again i could be wrong ill need to reread that chapter

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I just did a quick scan for that part, and you are right, she wasn't actually fighting the kindly man at the time. He was going to sneak up on her and do whatever, but she was able to see through the cats eyes to see who was doing it, and react and be able to hit him. She could have switched back just in time to be able to react, but it does raise the question of what she was doing while the Kindly man was sneaking up on her. I don't think he would have been very impressed if she was sleeping or appeared to be sleeping, unless this happens in the middle of the night.

[Tywin]

It seems that Varamyr and others have fought battles while controlling (warging) multiple animals around them. I doubt they would have lasted long in these situations if their human body was lying asleep in the middle of the melee while they controlled a bear or a lion or something to attack someone nearby.

For me it seems self evident that they can split their attention between their self and another to varying degrees (ie see out of the cats eyes while controling her own body).

[juleska]

Originally Posted by Tywin

It seems that Varamyr and others have fought battles while controlling (warging) multiple animals around them. I doubt they would have lasted long in these situations if their human body was lying asleep in the middle of the melee while they controlled a bear or a lion or something to attack someone nearby.

For me it seems self evident that they can split their attention between their self and another to varying degrees (ie see out of the cats eyes while controling her own body).

Right! That's kind of my point. I mean if you're in the heat of battle and all of a sudden you warg into a nearby animal....does your now lifeless body just keep thundering along on a horse and then veer off into a tree? Doesn't really fit.

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I think there are, or must be, varying degrees to which you can put yourself into another being. For Bran, it seems like he is putting his whol consiousness into whatever he is warging into. Whereas Varmyr seems to be able to exert a little controll over many animals. It was mentioned that His snow bear revolted everytime he warged into him, OR rode him, so I guess he is able to put just enough of himself into other animals to stop them from eating him.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I don't know that we will ever have it fully explained, unless it's something that Bran will eventually learn.