Pivotal point

[Bowler1]

This is the big reveal/pivot for my WIP, and I’m worried it is a little too unbelievable. Chrons is certainly the place to test that problem!

The Ceptors are a bird species, already described - think Big Bird pimped up a bit and orange/brown not yellow and you’ll be close enough to keep me happy.

Let’s hope I do better this time than my last critique posting, fingersand toes crossed!

# # #

‘Welcome to our little city Captain King and Specialist Wilson,’ hootedTel-Took, to the two robotic avatars. They were joining her on her officebalcony which over looked Carter Park. Zommba and Laura were with Tel-Took.

‘Thank you, I hope our avatars are not confusing any of you?’

‘The stencilled name on your casings help, it stands out against your white colouring,’ replied Laura, smirking.

‘Formalities and manners, something spacers are not best known for!’replied King.

‘Now, now, Laura, these humans are my guests. Do you need to sit?’asked Tel-Took.

‘No, but we will, I think it will be more comfortable for everyone.’Laura joined the avatars, taking a seat with a view from the balcony; the two Ceptors simply lowered themselves, roosting.

‘Excuse me for being direct. How long have you been transporting humans here?’ asked King.

Zommba and Laura both laughed a little.

‘For quite some time Captain, we have been expecting a visit from the Federation for years,’ replied Tel-Took, whilst giving Zommba a stern look for laughing.

‘A visit!’ exclaimed King. ‘It will be the first of many visits, now we know humans are here.’

‘You have no authority here Captain, this is Ceptor space,’ replied Zommba, loudly.

‘We know that. Yet I believe the humans here have a right to proper representation, there is a treaty in place between the Federation and theCeptor Confederate. That I believe, gives me some authority here, do you not agree?’

‘That treaty gives you….’ Zommba stopped, Tel-Took had silenced him by flashing her head crest, clearly frustrated.

‘I’m sorry. There seems to be some unwarranted emotions here. We are only a small outpost, any decisions regarding human authority are not for us to decide,’ said Tel-Took, trying to take control of the meeting.

‘Captain King does not represent Spacer interests, we do not recognise his authority here and protest the use of weapons to hold our ship here,’ said Laura.

‘What you did was illegal, these people do not belong here,’ said King, using volume from his speakers to force his point across.

Zommba started hooting; enjoying the argument that was developing.

‘SILENCE,’ shouted Tel-Took, standing suddenly and flaring her headcrest in anger. The sight of an angry female Ceptor ended all arguments; the female of the species was much larger than the males.

‘I have sent a message through the jump gate, we will have answers toour questions soon enough,’ said Tel-Took.

‘So have I,’ replied King. This seemed to attract Zommbas attention,something King noted.

‘That ends all discussion of authority, soon others will arrive that will have authority here. Until then, both ships will remain in orbit, is that clear.’

King and Laura nodded agreement, but there was a sullen silence afterTel-Took’s statement.

‘I think it would be helpful if you had knowledge of our motivations Captain, are you interested in knowing more?’ asked Tel-Took.

‘Yes, of course,’ replied King, surprised at the offer.

Tel-Took, took a moment to settle herself back down, fluffing her feathers a little as she did so.

‘We are what remain of a band of refugees. Refugees from a civil war, have you ever heard of the Dead Wars Captain?’

‘No, I have not.’

‘There was a Ceptor civil war; no other species from the Confederate were involved. We live a long time Captain, six, seven hundred years is not unusual for us. Death is an option for us and many of us backup onto cyber realities after death, becoming our Ancestors who guide us in our daily lives. For generations this worked very well. Slowly some of us came to believe that our society was stagnating; the dead are cautious, more cautious even than the old, or so we believe. Eventually this caused a schism in our society, and the young formed separate enclaves. To start with this was not seen as a problem, the dead accepted that the flower of youth must make its own way in life. Were you aware of any of this Captain?’

Stunned, King was slow to reply. ‘Ahhh, no, no.’

‘Well, time is our enemy and the young grew old and died. Politics in the enclaves became complicated, leading to unrest, and eventually the Ancestors stepped in to restore order, as they saw it. Some enclaves resisted, there were even outbreaks of conventional warfare, but not much. The enclaves did not have the resources to maintain campaigns against mainstream Ceptor society. Minorities resorted to desperate means. Whole Ancestor databases were attacked by any means available, millions died for real. Retaliation was swift and the fighting escalated, millions fled to the far reaches of space.’

‘Is this war finished?’ asked Wilson, concerned.

‘This war was not recent, not by any human measure. There has been no fighting for over two hundred years. There is, for what it’s worth, an on-going ceasefire in place, peace by any measure.’

‘So this place was a refuge, a safe haven from this war of yours?’asked King.

‘Yes, a place for refugees and one of many that used to be in this area of local space. Ankabus is one of the last left, most of us have returned to Confederate space.’

‘So why haven’t you left, why is Ankabus still operating?’

‘A good question Captain, we refuse to accept the old order; we do not accept the authority of our Ancestors.’

‘Now I really don’t understand. You’ve lost me Tel-Took.’

Laura laughed, enjoying the Captain’s confusion. ‘They’re protesting, think of them as star faring hippies holding out in a protest camp, and you’ll be close to what they’re trying to achieve here.’

‘Laura is right, we are peacefully protesting,’ said Tel-Took.

‘Are you f@@king serious?’ exclaimed King.

Laura and the Ceptors laughed, Zommba hooting loudly.

‘Hey! If you’re protesting, where are all the other Ceptors? I don’t see many of you here,’ shouted King, so loudly there was distortion from his speakers.

This stopped the laughing.

‘As I said, time is our enemy. Old age breeds conservatism, most of us have returned to Confederate space. Slowly Ankabus was dying, so we made adecision,’ said Tel-Took.

‘Some decision, you brought humans into your protest. What impact is this going to have? What are the implications?’ asked King, not even trying to hide his anger.

‘None of the humans are going to be harmed; they are innocent in all this. We expect this to cause problems, but only at a diplomatic level, or so we hope. What the outcome of all this will be, we don’t know. At worst humans will be returned to Federation controlled space, no worse off than when they arrived here.’

‘I can see a few problems with that.’

‘So do we Captain. This is a dying colony, Ankabus could be handed over to human control; if that happens then a great resource will be given to humans that had nothing where they came from. We find it hard to believe poverty is still allowed on your home world, you are not in a position to judge us Captain.’

‘A statement to both societies, you really are a piece of work. This has potential disaster written all over it. I will need to inform my superiors of all this,’ said King.

‘We expect nothing else.’

‘I bet you don’t. What about you Laura, what are the Spacers getting from all this?’

‘We believe in human expansion, we always have. So when we were approached, we said yes,’ replied Laura, calmly and cool.

‘You’re lying,’ replied King. Laura flinched under his accusation, but stayed silent.

‘Regardless, this is where we are,’ said Tel-Took.

King stood, ‘I think its best I return to my ship.’

As you wish Captain, Zommba will take you both back to your shuttle.

When they had left and Tel-Took was alone with Laura, the old bird sighed, a very human gesture. ‘Well, that went as expected. What do you think the Captains superiors will do?’

‘Not much, we’re a long way from human space and it would take months for another human ship to get here, even with a fast frigate.’

‘That won’t last Laura, we have finally been discovered. What really worries me is the message King sent, to whom, and what has he said? That does concern me.’

Laura felt a chill; she had never seen Tel-Took worried before.

[fishii]

Originally Posted by Bowler1

This is the big reveal/pivot for my WIP, and I’m worried it is a little too unbelievable. Chrons is certainly the place to test that problem!

The Ceptors are a bird species, already described - think Big Bird pimped up a bit and orange/brown not yellow and you’ll be close enough to keep me happy.

Let’s hope I do better this time than my last critique posting, fingersand toes crossed!

# # #

‘Welcome to our little city Captain King and Specialist Wilson,’ hootedTel-Took, to the two robotic avatars. They were joining her on her officebalcony which over looked Carter Park. Zommba and Laura were with Tel-Took.

‘Thank you, I hope our avatars are not confusing any of you?’ This line confused me because I couldn't tell who said it.

‘The stencilled name on your casings help, it stands out against your white colouring,’ replied Laura, smirking.

‘Formalities and manners, something spacers are not best known for!’replied King.

‘Now, now, Laura, these humans are my guests. Do you need to sit?’asked Tel-Took.

‘No, but we will, I think it will be more comfortable for everyone.’Laura joined the avatars, taking a seat with a view from the balcony; the two Ceptors simply lowered themselves, roosting.At this point I didn't know who the Ceptors were, but after reading more I think I figured it out.

‘Excuse me for being direct. How long have you been transporting humans here?’ asked King.

Zommba and Laura both laughed a little.

‘For quite some time Captain, we have been expecting a visit from the Federation for years,’ replied Tel-Took, whilst giving Zommba a stern look for laughing.

‘A visit!’ exclaimed King. ‘It will be the first of many visits, now we know humans are here.’

‘You have no authority here Captain, this is Ceptor space,’ replied Zommba, loudly.

‘We know that. Yet I believe the humans here have a right to proper representation, there is a treaty in place between the Federation and theCeptor Confederate. That I believe, gives me some authority here, do you not agree?’

‘That treaty gives you….’ Zommba stopped, Tel-Took had silenced him by flashing her head crest, clearly frustrated.

‘I’m sorry. There seems to be some unwarranted emotions here. We are only a small outpost, any decisions regarding human authority are not for us to decide,’ said Tel-Took, trying to take control of the meeting.

‘Captain King does not represent Spacer interests, we do not recognise his authority here and protest the use of weapons to hold our ship here,’ said Laura.

‘What you did was illegal, these people do not belong here,’ said King, using volume from his speakers to force his point across.

Zommba started hooting; enjoying the argument that was developing.

‘SILENCE,’ shouted Tel-Took, standing suddenly and flaring her headcrest in anger. The sight of an angry female Ceptor ended all arguments; the female of the species was much larger than the males.

‘I have sent a message through the jump gate, we will have answers toour questions soon enough,’ said Tel-Took.

‘So have I,’ replied King. This seemed to attract Zommbas attention,something King noted.

‘That ends all discussion of authority, soon others will arrive that will have authority here. Until then, both ships will remain in orbit, is that clear.’

King and Laura nodded agreement, but there was a sullen silence afterTel-Took’s statement.

‘I think it would be helpful if you had knowledge of our motivations Captain, are you interested in knowing more?’ asked Tel-Took.

‘Yes, of course,’ replied King, surprised at the offer.

Tel-Took, took a moment to settle herself back down, fluffing her feathers a little as she did so.

‘We are what remain of a band of refugees. Refugees from a civil war, have you ever heard of the Dead Wars Captain?’

‘No, I have not.’

‘There was a Ceptor civil war; no other species from the Confederate were involved. We live a long time Captain, six, seven hundred years is not unusual for us. Death is an option for us and many of us backup onto cyber realities This confused me, perhaps you have explained earlier in your story what a cyber reality is and I just haven't seen it. Is it like a life after death kinda thing? after death, becoming our Ancestors who guide us in our daily lives. For generations this worked very well. Slowly some of us came to believe that our society was stagnating; the dead are cautious, more cautious even than the old, or so we believe. Eventually this caused a schism in our society, and the young formed separate enclaves. To start with this was not seen as a problem, the dead accepted that the flower of youth must make its own way in life. Were you aware of any of this Captain?’

Stunned, King was slow to reply. ‘Ahhh, no, no.’

‘Well, time is our enemy and the young grew old and died. Politics in the enclaves became complicated, leading to unrest, and eventually the Ancestors stepped in to restore order, as they saw it. Some enclaves resisted, there were even outbreaks of conventional warfare, but not much. The enclaves did not have the resources to maintain campaigns against mainstream Ceptor society. Minorities resorted to desperate means. Whole Ancestor databases were attacked by any means available, millions died for real. Retaliation was swift and the fighting escalated, millions fled to the far reaches of space.’

‘Is this war finished?’ asked Wilson, concerned.

‘This war was not recent, not by any human measure. There has been no fighting for over two hundred years. There is, for what it’s worth, an on-going ceasefire in place, peace by any measure.’

‘So this place was a refuge, a safe haven from this war of yours?’asked King.

‘Yes, a place for refugees and one of many that used to be in this area of local space. Ankabus is one of the last left, most of us have returned to Confederate space.’

‘So why haven’t you left, why is Ankabus still operating?’

‘A good question Captain, we refuse to accept the old order; we do not accept the authority of our Ancestors.’

‘Now I really don’t understand. You’ve lost me Tel-Took.’

Laura laughed, enjoying the Captain’s confusion. ‘They’re protesting, think of them as star faring hippies holding out in a protest camp, and you’ll be close to what they’re trying to achieve here.’

‘Laura is right, we are peacefully protesting,’ said Tel-Took.

‘Are you f@@king serious?’ exclaimed King.That's a funny and cool way of not cussing on the chrons.

Laura and the Ceptors laughed, Zommba hooting loudly.

‘Hey! If you’re protesting, where are all the other Ceptors? I don’t see many of you here,’ shouted King, so loudly there was distortion from his speakers.

This stopped the laughing.

‘As I said, time is our enemy. Old age breeds conservatism, most of us have returned to Confederate space. Slowly Ankabus was dying, so we made adecision,’ said Tel-Took.

‘Some decision, you brought humans into your protest. What impact is this going to have? What are the implications?’ asked King, not even trying to hide his anger.

‘None of the humans are going to be harmed; they are innocent in all this. We expect this to cause problems, but only at a diplomatic level, or so we hope. What the outcome of all this will be, we don’t know. At worst humans will be returned to Federation controlled space, no worse off than when they arrived here.’

‘I can see a few problems with that.’

‘So do we Captain. This is a dying colony, Ankabus could be handed over to human control; if that happens then a great resource I am confused here, If it's a dying colony than how is it a great resource?will be given to humans that had nothing where they came from. We find it hard to believe poverty is still allowed on your home world, you are not in a position to judge us Captain.’

‘A statement to both societies, you really are a piece of work. This has potential disaster written all over it. I will need to inform my superiors of all this,’ said King.

‘We expect nothing else.’

‘I bet you don’t. What about you Laura, what are the Spacers getting from all this?’

‘We believe in human expansion, we always have. So when we were approached, we said yes,’ replied Laura, calmly and cool.

‘You’re lying,’ replied King. Laura flinched under his accusation, but stayed silent.

‘Regardless, this is where we are,’ said Tel-Took.

King stood, ‘I think its best I return to my ship.’

As you wish Captain, Zommba will take you both back to your shuttle. Was someone supposed to be saying this?

When they had left and Tel-Took was alone with Laura, the old bird sighed, a very human gesture. ‘Well, that went as expected. What do you think the Captains superiors will do?’

‘Not much, we’re a long way from human space and it would take months for another human ship to get here, even with a fast frigate.’

‘That won’t last Laura, we have finally been discovered. What really worries me is the message King sent, to whom, and what has he said? That does concern me.’

Laura felt a chill; she had never seen Tel-Took worried before.

Hi Bowler I thought this was a good little piece but at first I was a little confused.
I don't know if this is good or bad but I noticed there is a whole lot of dialogue in this piece.
I noticed that in several places you forgot to put a space between words. That was probably an accident and you just didn't notice.
These are all just thoughts I had as a reader since I suck at grammar when trying to edit someone else's stuff.

[ctg]

To be honest, I have a big problem with the style. A really big problem but I managed to push it on side. And what you're asking cannot be answered. Not with amount of the text that you have posted here and that is the problem with the turning points, as we don't have knowledge from the past. Sorry.

[Bowler1]

There are sections prior to this that I can clarify.

Ankabus is a large colony, it could support about 1m people and this is the resource. The ceptors are covered prior to this as well, so I appreciate that some guess work is involved here - big birds does cover it. In general, to this point it has just been the Kerr family traveling to the colony and starting their new lives. The human ship has recently arrived. Captain King has also just arrived and this was his first meeting trying to find out why the humans were here. This is people smuggling, I have a baddy that has made money from this.

The turning point is the ceptor war, this is new. Humans have been transported to Ankabus and the politics of why they have been brought to this colony is above. The idea of a war by dead ceptors is also new in this section and is far fetched, this is what I'm worried about.

CTG - I do value your comments, very much so on style. Could you be clearer on what you found difficult, give me something to go on, pretty please?

Fishi, I have been trying to keep down the who saids, sorry. Spacing always seems to be a problem when I post, I may have missed some. But I'm glad you liked what was posted.

[alchemist]

Hi Bowler,
Not knowing the rest of the story, it's difficult to grasp a lot of what's going on.

You've lost some spaces which I presume is a copy/paste issue.

Originally Posted by Bowler1

# # #

‘Welcome to our little city Captain King and Specialist Wilson,’ hootedTel-Took, drop comma to the two robotic avatars. They were joining her on her officebalcony which over looked Carter Park. Zommba and Laura were with Tel-Took. could be worded better e.g. "Zommba and Laura stood beside Tel-Took on her office balcony, with its magnificent view of Carter Park." Although I'd really drop the view reference

‘Thank you, I hope our avatars are not confusing any of you?’

‘The stencilled name on your casings help, it stands out against your white colouring,’ replied Laura, smirking.why would this cause her to smirk?

‘Formalities and manners, something spacers are not best known for!’replied King.

‘Now, now, Laura, these humans are my guests. Do you need to sit?’asked Tel-Took.

‘No, but we will, full stop I think it will be more comfortable for everyone.’rogue apostrophe Laura joined the avatars, taking a seat with a view from the balcony;you've already mentioned the balcony so no need to again the two Ceptors simply lowered themselves, roosting.

‘Excuse me for being direct. How long have you been transporting humans here?’ asked King.

Zommba and Laura both laughed a little.laughed a little? You could say they sniggered, chortled etc depending on whatever is behind the laugh

‘For quite some time Captain, we have been expecting a visit from the Federation for years,’ replied Tel-Took, whilst giving Zommba a stern look for laughing. don't need that bit

‘A visit!’ exclaimed King. ‘It will be the first of many visits, now we know humans are here.’

‘You have no authority here Captain, comma splice, use full stopthis is Ceptor space,’ replied Zommba, loudly. may be better as e.g. Zommba insisted

‘We know that. Yet I believe the humans here have a right to proper representation, splice there is a treaty in place between the Federation and theCeptor Confederate. That I believe, gives me some authority here, do you not agree?’

‘That treaty gives you….’ em dash would work better than ellipsis, for interrupted speech Zommba stopped, Tel-Took had silenced him by flashing her head crest, clearly frustrated.

‘I’m sorry. There seems to be some unwarranted emotions here. We are only a small outpost, any decisions regarding human authority are not for us to decide,’ said Tel-Took, trying to take control of the meeting.

‘Captain King does not represent Spacer interests, splice we do not recognise his authority here and protest the use of weapons to hold our ship here,’ said Laura.

‘What you did was illegal, these people do not belong here,’ said King, using volume from his speakers to force his point across.suggest...‘What you did was illegal, these people do not belong here,’ said King. The metallic voice of the avatar grew in volume.

Zommba started hooting; enjoying the argument that was developing. not sure whose POV we're dealing with.

‘SILENCE,’ "Silence!" shouted Tel-Took, standing suddenly and flaring her headcrest in anger. Would be better as -- She stood and flared her headcrest in anger The sight of an angry female Ceptor ended all arguments; the female of the species was much larger than the males. Are you aiming for an omniscient POV? The last part is quite info-dumpy
<SNIP>

Sorry, I haven't time to do more at the moment. I read the rest, but can't really comment on the reveal as I don't know the context.

There's a bit of work to be done. Some is on grammar and punctuation. I think it would be tighter if you focussed on the scene from one character's point of view; you have the dreaded "head-hopping."

Some of the dialogue is stilted, although that may be deliberate for the aliens.

Finally, this may be me more than you, but I think dialogue tags in the style King said may work better here than said King.

Sorry if that all comes out negative. There seems a pretty good, complex story there.

[ctg]

The reason I don't want to do this style bit is because it involves the whole excerpt. It's how you have set it up and how you're going on about it, and in my heart I believe that is your artistic vision.

Maybe that will prove you to say, "Bollocks." But I'm afraid to say things any longer because people thinks I say them because I'm nasty, which I don't want to be. I say them because I believe in the purity and that one can hone their craft to be better. And that's why one can find most of my posts in here; in the critique forum where I have tried to learn to be a better storyteller and writer.

You can do that Bowler1. I really believe you can do that and just at the moment you're seeing things differently. And that is the reason why I'm so hesitant to break you art - as this is your vision on how it should be. But I'll do my best to give you an example on you how I would do it.

Originally Posted by Bowler1

‘Welcome to our little city Captain King and Specialist Wilson,’ hooted {space}Tel-Took,{no comma} to the two robotic avatars. They were joining her on her office{space}balcony{comma} which over looked Carter Park. Zommba and Laura were with Tel-Took.

I believe that you're lacking on critiques because many of our members see this as a first draft. And to my eye it strikes as none sophisticated, as you're lacking in the technical detail. The reader who comes to this is immediately lost as they don't know what's what and who's who, but you'll provide them some information through the description.

I can imagine the two robotic avatars, but I cannot picture the place at all or the only image I get, is a grand white balcony that is overlooking a city basking in a yellowish sunset. There might be even a torch-ship or two landing somewhere in the distance, but all in all it's quite vague for such grand setting that you are trying to convey.

The first highlight is marking a repetitious word and the second something that many of would classify as telling. And the reason why it's telling is because that is you as an author telling yourself of where your actors are located. And that is not what many of us would do as we would try our best to convey the details on the scene. But then again that is what I'm so afraid to point out to you as I'm compromising your artistic vision with technicalities. Why? Well, let's not discuss that as I want to get on with this.

‘Thank you, I hope our avatars are not confusing any of you?’

‘The stencilled name on your casings help, it stands out against your white colouring,’ replied Laura, smirking.

You can easily replace replied with smirked but there's another technicality that is present through this whole excerpt and that is your usage of verb before the identifier, where as many writers do it the other way round.

You could had written,

"Thank you," Captain King said. "I'll hope our avatars aren't confusing any of you, are they?"

Laura rolled her eyes and said, "You dumwit. I pencilled our names in the casings with a magic-marker. They know who we are, don't you?"

"I'm not--"

"You are." Laura nodded sharply.

"You," Captain King raised his voice at the same moment as one of the Tel-Tooks opened his peak and said, "Excuse me but could we--"

"Not right now," Captain King replied. He slammed his hands on hips and growled, "Specialist Wilson..."

Laura looked him deep in the eyes and the subtly jerked her head towards the ambassadors before she whispered, "I think you're forgetting something."

Captain King looked her for a moment and then quickly turned around as if nothing had happened. "Sorry, you were saying."

I'll hope you'll see in that little narrative a way to include character cohesion in the descriptive character action, where the narrator is Laura. It also should show an alternative way to the speech tags.

‘Formalities and manners, something spacers are not best known for!’{comma}replied King.

Be very careful with the exclamation marks as you should use them very sparingly.

‘Now, now, Laura,{speech tag} these humans are my guests. Do you need to sit?’asked Tel-Took.

To be honest I'm getting a bit lost on what's going on at this scene. Why Tel-took is saying that and why would he ask robots to sit, when they don't obviously need to?

‘No, but we will, I think it will be more comfortable for everyone.’Laura joined the avatars, taking a seat with a view from the balcony; the two Ceptors simply lowered themselves, roosting.

To me the highlighted bit reads completely wrong. It's telling and in my mind you're using description wrongly. But that is the thing, it's my mind, not yours and the reader can imagine what you're saying even if it sounds clumsy.

‘Excuse me for being direct. How long have you been transporting humans here?’ asked King.

Zommba and Laura both laughed a little.

‘For quite some time Captain, we have been expecting a visit from the Federation for years,’ replied Tel-Took, whilst giving Zommba a stern look for laughing.

‘A visit!’ exclaimed King. ‘It will be the first of many visits, now we know humans are here.’

‘You have no authority here Captain, this is Ceptor space,’ replied Zommba, loudly.

‘We know that. Yet I believe the humans here have a right to proper representation, there is a treaty in place between the Federation and theCeptor Confederate. That I believe, gives me some authority here, do you not agree?’

‘That treaty gives you….’ Zommba stopped, Tel-Took had silenced him by flashing her head crest, clearly frustrated.

It's somewhat good but to me it reads clumsy. You do comma splices in place where you don't need to and some of the descriptors are off the place. I don't know what you're doing and therefore I'm very afraid to go on with this as I think I'll have given you enough of information for you to understand why I'm hesitant to go on with this piece.

I don't understand where your culmination point comes in and what you're afraid as all what they are doing sounds to me as if they're conducting an informal diplomatic mission. So could you be kind and please explain me what is that you find so complicated?

If its finding out things then you'll need to add more personal thoughts and probably some character dialogue between the humans to really mark out that all of that is a big culmination point that foreshadows something else that comes later in the book.

[Bowler1]

Thank you CTG for taking the time to come back to me with a very detailed working. As a new member I'm getting a lot of very good advice and help which I'm very grateful for. I have changed my writing style a lot recently and I'm trying to find my feet really, it is a lot to take in or has been for me anyway. You have hit on one of my main worries, I have been cutting back on description for crispness and this has not always felt right to me.

I should trust my gut more.

My worry, which seems to have been accepted without any issues, was simply a society controlled by the passed on dead and the issues that causes. it would seem I can fling my human family head long into the up coming confrontation then. For a site that seems to like zombies, I should have known better.

CTG, I'm very grateful thank you. Time to head off and add more colour again and see where I end up.

[Toby Frost]

I'm not going to go through it in detail, but I thought I would mention a couple of things.

‘No, but we will, I think it will be more comfortable for everyone.’Laura joined the avatars, taking a seat with a view from the balcony; the two Ceptors simply lowered themselves, roosting.

I'm afraid I don't see anything much wrong with this beyond grammar. There should be a full stop after we will. I personally would also use a full stop instead of the semicolon, since the two clauses seem quite separate, but the overall idea seems fine to me. Yes, it is telling, but it is brief enough not to be particularly noticeable. Where the information being told is not terribly important, I see no problem in saying it briefly and directly. It seems to me to be a short, literal description of some minor events.

I think CTG and Alchemist are absolutely right about the dialogue tags, though. In the context of a novel, said Alice looks weird, whereas Alice said is normal. In a large chunk of dialogue, I think I and most writers would use Alice said about ten times as often as said Alice, maybe more. At the moment this just looks peculiar and artificially distracting, and really ought to change.

Some of the dialogue feels quite stilted, but this is as much the grammar as the words. At the moment, especially since so much of the piece is dialogue, its full effect isn't coming through, partly because of the comma splices.

[Bowler1]

Thank you Toby.

[chrispenycate]

[/quote][quote]

Originally Posted by Bowler1

This is the big reveal/pivot for my WIP, and I’m worried it is a little too unbelievable. Chrons is certainly the place to test that problem!

The Ceptors are a bird species, already described - think Big Bird pimped up a bit and orange/brown not yellow and you’ll be close enough to keep me happy.

Let’s hope I do better this time than my last critique posting, fingersand toes crossed!

# # #

‘Welcome to our little city

Comma

Captain King and Specialist Wilson,’ hooted Tel-Took,

I don't think you need this comma.

to the two robotic avatars. They were joining her on her office balcony which over looked

overlooked one word.

Carter Park. Zommba and Laura were with Tel-Took.

‘Thank you,

Comma splice

I hope our avatars are not confusing any of you?’

‘The stencilled name on your casings help,

Either plural ("painted names… help") or singular ("painted name…helps")

it stands out against your white colouring,’ replied Laura, smirking.

‘Formalities and manners, something spacers are not best known for!’ replied King.

‘Now, now, Laura, these humans are my guests. Do you need to sit?’ asked Tel-Took.

‘No, but we will,

Comma slice

I think it will be more comfortable for everyone.’ Laura joined the avatars, taking a seat with a view from the balcony; the two Ceptors simply lowered themselves, roosting.

‘Excuse me for being direct. How long have you been transporting humans here?’ asked King.

Zommba and Laura both laughed a little.

‘For quite some time Captain,

Comma splice.

we have been expecting a visit from the Federation for years,’ replied Tel-Took, whilst giving Zommba a stern look for laughing.

‘A visit!’ exclaimed King. ‘It will be the first of many visits, now we know humans are here.’

‘You have no authority here

Comma

Captain, this is Ceptor space,’

Technically comma splice.

replied Zommba, loudly.

‘We know that. Yet I believe the humans here have a right to proper representation,

Comma splice

there is a treaty in place between the Federation and theCeptor Confederate. That I believe, gives me some authority here, do you not agree?’

‘That treaty gives you….’ Zommba stopped,

Comma Splice

Tel-Took had silenced him by flashing her head crest, clearly frustrated.

'I’m sorry. There seems

Plural (seem)

to be some unwarranted emotions here. We are only a small outpost,

Comma splice

any decisions regarding human authority are not for us to decide,’ said Tel-Took, trying to take control of the meeting.

‘Captain King does not represent Spacer interests, we do not recognise his authority here and protest the use of weapons to hold our ship here,’ said Laura.

‘What you did was illegal, these people do not belong here,’ said King, using volume from his speakers to force his point across.

Zommba started hooting;

That's n

enjoying the argument that was developing.

‘SILENCE,’ shouted Tel-Took, standing suddenly and flaring her headcrest in anger. The sight of an angry female Ceptor ended all arguments; the female of the species was much larger than the males.

‘I have sent a message through the jump gate,

Comma splice

we will have answers to our questions soon enough,’ said Tel-Took.

‘So have I,’ replied King. This seemed to attract Zommbas

Zommba's

attention, something King noted.

‘That ends all discussion of authority,

Comma splice, and I'd try and avoid the repetition of the word "authority" quite that close

soon others will arrive that will have authority here. Until then, both ships will remain in orbit,

Comma splice.

is that clear.

Question mark even if the actual inquiry is rhetorical.

’

King and Laura nodded agreement, but there was a sullen silence after Tel-Took’s statement.

‘I think it would be helpful if you had knowledge of our motivations Captain,

Comma splice.

are you interested in knowing more?’ asked Tel-Took.

‘Yes, of course,’ replied King, surprised at the offer.

Tel-Took,

no comma

took a moment to settle herself back down, fluffing her feathers a little as she did so.

]‘We are what remain of a band of refugees. Refugees from a civil war,

Comma splice.

have you ever heard of the Dead Wars

Comma

Captain?’

‘No, I have not.’

‘There was a Ceptor civil war; no other species from the Confederate were involved. We live a long time

Comma

Captain, six, seven hundred years is not unusual for us. Death is an option for us and many of us backup onto cyber realities after death, becoming our

Dou you need this "our"?

Ancestors who guide us in our daily lives. For generations this worked very well. Slowly some of us came to believe that our society was stagnating; the dead are cautious, more cautious even than the old, or so we believe. Eventually this caused a schism in our society, and the young formed separate enclaves. To start with this was not seen as a problem,

Comma splice

the dead accepted that the flower of youth must make its own way in life. Were you aware of any of this Captain?’

Stunned, King was slow to reply. ‘Ahhh, no, no.’

‘Well, time is our enemy and the young grew old and died. Politics in the enclaves became complicated, leading to unrest, and eventually the Ancestors stepped in to restore order, as they saw it. Some enclaves resisted, there were even outbreaks of conventional warfare, but not much

many?

. The enclaves did not have the resources to maintain campaigns against mainstream Ceptor society. Minorities resorted to desperate means. Whole Ancestor databases were attacked by any means available,

that's a comma splice too, but not too disturbing.

millions died for real. Retaliation was swift and the fighting escalated, millions fled to the far reaches of space.’

‘Is this war finished?’ asked Wilson, concerned.

‘This war was not recent, not by any human measure. There has been no fighting for over two hundred years. There is, for what it’s worth, an on-going ceasefire in place, peace by any measure.’

‘So this place was a refuge, a safe haven from this war of yours?’asked King.

‘Yes, a place for refugees and one of many that used to be in this area of local space. Ankabus is one of the last left,

Comma splice

most of us have returned to Confederate space.’

‘So why haven’t you left,

Comma splice

why is Ankabus still operating?’

‘A good question

Comma

Captain,

Comma splice.

we refuse to accept the old order; we do not accept the authority of our Ancestors.’

‘Now I really don’t understand. You’ve lost me

Comma

Tel-Took.’

Laura laughed, enjoying the Captain’s confusion. ‘They’re protesting,

Comma splice

think of them as star faring hippies holding out in a protest camp, and you’ll be close to what they’re trying to achieve here.’

‘Laura is right, we are peacefully protesting,’ said Tel-Took.

‘Are you f@@king serious?’ exclaimed King.

Laura and the Ceptors laughed, Zommba hooting loudly.

‘Hey! If you’re protesting, where are all the other Ceptors? I don’t see many of you here,’ shouted King, so loudly there was distortion from his speakers.

Why the change in paragraph?

This stopped the laughing.

‘As I said, time is our enemy. Old age breeds conservatism,

Comma splice

most of us have returned to Confederate space. Slowly Ankabus was dying, so we made a decision,’ said Tel-Took.

‘Some decision,

Comma splice.

you brought humans into your protest. What impact is this going to have? What are the implications?’ asked King, not even trying to hide his anger.

‘None of the humans are going to be harmed; they are innocent in all this. We expect this to cause problems, but only at a diplomatic level, or so we hope. What the outcome of all this will be, we don’t know. At worst humans will be returned to Federation controlled space, no worse off than when they arrived here.’

‘I can see a few problems with that.’

‘So do we Captain. This is a dying colony, Ankabus could be handed over to human control; if that happens then a great resource will be given to humans that had nothing where they came from. We find it hard to believe poverty is still allowed on your home world,

Comma splice

you are not in a position to judge us

Comma

Captain.’

‘A statement to both societies,

Comma splice

you really are a piece of work. This has potential disaster written all over it. I will need to inform my superiors of all this,’ said King.

‘We expect nothing else.’

‘I bet you don’t. What about you

Comma

Laura, what are the Spacers getting from all this?’

‘We believe in human expansion, we always have. So when we were approached, we said yes,’ replied Laura, calmly and cool.

cooly? the mating of adverb and adjective seems strange.

‘You’re lying,’ replied King. Laura flinched under his accusation, but stayed silent.

‘Regardless, this is where we are,’ said Tel-Took.

King stood,

Full stop (not direct speech attribution).

‘I think its best I return to my ship.’

As you wish

Comma

Captain,

Comma splice

Zommba will take you both back to your shuttle.

When they had left and Tel-Took was alone with Laura, the old bird sighed, a very human gesture. ‘Well, that went as expected. What do you think the Captains superiors will do?’

‘Not much,

Comma splice.

we’re a long way from human space and it would take months for another human ship to get here, even with

Do you need that "with"?

a fast frigate.’

‘That won’t last

Comma

Laura, we have finally been discovered. What really worries me is the message King sent, to whom, and what has he said? That does concern me.’

Laura felt a chill; she had never seen Tel-Took worried before.

[Bowler1]

Chrispenycate, thank you so much yet again for making the time to go through my work.

I do this time have a general question about what is right and what is worng. Most (sadly not all) of the comma splices were during dialogue between characters. In the example below, it is a clear comma splice I agree 100%. But as a character is talking there is I think a pause in the statement/question, hence the use of a comma.

So when doing dialogue, following what I think are natural pauses in speech are comma/comma splices allowed, maybe not technically correct but correct for style?

The dialogue - 'Refugees from a civil war, have you ever heard of the Dead Wars Captain?'

All answers are welcome.

[Toby Frost]

'Refugees from a civil war, have you ever heard of the Dead Wars Captain?'

I think no, because I don't know how this is being said. Is the speaker addressing the refugees from a civil war or answering a question about who a number of people are? That's what I originally thought. Is the speaker asking the Captain whether he has ever heard of the Dead Wars, or is the speaker asking the refugees from the civil war whether they have heard of the Dead Wars Captain, ie the captain of the Dead Wars? It's not clear, and as such doesn't represent real speech very well, since the tone of voice in real speech would make these questions clear. I realise that most of this could be inferred from the context of the conversation, but (a) it slows the reader down and (b) if the rest of the conversation is similar, it might be quite difficult and distracting.

Real speech - that is, actual speech recorded word for word - is fragmented and chaotic. Dialogue should preserve some informality, to show that it's spoken and what the speakers are like, but should be clear to read (unless you want a character to sound confusing). This sentence isn't clear, since it can be interpreted a number of ways. On the other hand, I think this would work, assuming that the speaker is answering a question as to who a group of people are:

"Refugees from a civil war. Have you ever heard of the Dead Wars, Captain?"

[Peter Graham]

I agree with CTG. This needs a lot of work. There is too much head hopping and info dumping disguised as dialogue. There are also too many unnecessary dialogue qualifiers (including saidisms), which take away from the potential of the dialogue to speak for itself:-

"You reckon King Arthur really existed? What a load of b***ocks," said Peter.

...is always going to look better than:-

"You reckon King Arthur really existed?" exclaimed Peter incredulously. "What a load of b***ocks," he added with a shake of his head and a snort of derision.

Both passages contain precisely the same dialogue, but the second is so hedged around with signposts and little flourishes that it takes away from the drama of the dialogue (such as it is) and ruins the flow. There is nothing in the second which isn't implicit in the first or which the reader cannot work out for themselves, but in the second, the reader is compelled to avert their attention from the action in order to let the narrator primp the cushions and flick a duster over the dialogue tags. To my mind, it's just another kind of info dumping.

Regards,

Peter

[Peter Graham]

'Refugees from a civil war, have you ever heard of the Dead Wars Captain?'

Depends if the "refugees" bit is denoting the speaker grabbing the listener's attention. If so, the comma is far too weak. Use an exclamation mark:-

People of Britain! Your attention, please!

You lot over there! Have any of you seen my bicycle?


If "refugees" is in the context of a more gentle question, you can still lose the comma, or at least rejig the sentence so that it is used properly:-

A word to the wise. Splice wood, not commas.

"Have you ever heard of Jane Eyre, Dear Reader?


Regards,

Peter