2.02: Game of Thrones - The Night Lands

[ctg]

Stanis uses Ser Davos to seek out new allies for his war with the Lannisters. On the road north, Arya confides in Gendry. Robb Stark sends Theon Greyjoy to win an alliance with his father and the fierce warriors of the Iron Islands. Cercei and Tyrion clash on how to rule in King's Landing.

[Mouse]

Just watched this episode. Thought it was pretty dull. Could've done with being half an hour shorter.

Only things I liked was the Arya/Gendry stuff and the bit at the end with Jon. The rest was meh.

Still warming up, I guess.

[ctg]

Hhhrrrmmmm. Leaves some cheese for mouse. I'm not happy. The writing credits goes to David Benioff and DB Weiss as they are the pair that wrote most of the first season episodes. And the one thing I don't understand is that how they'd cocked up the beginning of the wonderful season so badly. It is almost as if they've forgotten that the majority of the people haven't read the novels and they need more narrative than what there currently is the at this episode.

I'm only glad that you didn't hear Mrs Ctg fuming after we viewed this episode, and she cannot take the s**t... um... alterations, the writers has weaved in the current plot. Not that there is a great deal of the plotting as to me they've forgotten that multi-POV's in the television needs more explaining. They cannot possibly fit everything that in the book number two in the ten episode.

There's no way.

But they did wonderful thing with the adaptation of the first book. However, in this one, and especially with the Ghost scene drove Mrs Ctg for a fifteen minute rant on why that wrong as Sam should not had been able to shush the direwolf away that way. And the thing with them being at that place beyond the Wall isn't very well explained and I only can suspect that they cut away the explanation of the babies as it's a long dialogue in the book. Still I believe that they could had done it better.

What is also bothering me is that they keep showing the dragon lady sitting in the middle of the desert, starving and without the support of his people when at the end of the first season, she had much large gathering of the people. What happened to them? And why is that these nomads aren't able to find the water even though they've probably been roaming through that part of the world for a very long time.

I don't know but I'm not especially happy.

*Leaves more cheese to Mouse*

Meh.

[Culhwch]

They got more flesh into this one.

I have to agree with both of you - a fairly dull episode. I still don't quite understand why Ros has such a big continuing role. Did it really need reinforcing that Littlefinger is all about the gold? At this point his character seems pretty well defined. And why did Ros care about the kid anyway?

I agree with your point on the viewers who aren't readers, ctg. My wife is watching with me, and I have to explain a heck of a lot of the history that is absent. I understand the need to streamline for TV, but you still have to lay some groundwork...

[svalbard]

It is sort of mirroring the opening of a Clash of Kings, which was also pretty dull to start out with before it picked up pace later on.

This series was always going to be the most difficult to film. There is a lot of character interaction, numerous story arcs and at times very little action. It is going to be interesting to see how it is going to evolve.

I like Roz...

[ctg]

It's not the action I want mister Svalbard. Not at all. I'm fine with a dress drama that explains a bit more - as they did with the cast of Babylon 5. And they had such a high number in the B5. However, in this one, I feel as I need to bring in my wife to explain things because the producers has failed in such a way that I feel last season of Merlin was better than this. In fact, I'd say that Merlin hasn't failed to explain backstory to the audience, where in this one, the audience is left to find the facts on their own.

[Mouse]

I didn't even realise that was Roz. There are a whole load of characters and I don't know who's who half the time. And I've read the books.

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by Culhwch

They got more flesh into this one.

I have to agree with both of you - a fairly dull episode. I still don't quite understand why Ros has such a big continuing role. Did it really need reinforcing that Littlefinger is all about the gold? At this point his character seems pretty well defined. And why did Ros care about the kid anyway?

I agree with your point on the viewers who aren't readers, ctg. My wife is watching with me, and I have to explain a heck of a lot of the history that is absent. I understand the need to streamline for TV, but you still have to lay some groundwork...

Here be spoilers. Look away non-viewers or I consider ye be warned, says I.

I've seen other forums hypothesise that Roz is being introduced and set up for a larger role (possibly replacing Chataya's in SoS?) but I agree for the most part she doesn't work for me, though I will say her acting is actually pretty good.
I just assumed she was hired for her *cough* physicality and pretty much all of series 1 had her naked or semi-naked. If you think about it, this series has seen her being fully clothed (this sounds ludicrous out of context) and part of the ensemble cast in a way that I just didn't appreciate. I'd rather that the role of Littlefinger's confidant was Sansa, but considering some of the ripe dialogue he's been given, an adult/employee seems to be how they've gone. I get the feeling we're being set up for the long con here - at least I hope so otherwise I'd be fairly cheesed off at all the wasted minutes on a non-book character which isn't adding a great deal to the story at present.

Anyway, back to the episode. I agree it felt more disjointed than the first one, ironically, as at least that had scene-setting to do and a linking mechanism (the comet) to employ. This episode seemed to hop around rather a lot from place to place and didn't seem to linger long enough in any place for us to get more emotionally involved in what was going on.

Things I liked:
Any scene with Tyrion - he is killing this role and seems nailed on for another Emmy. If anything he's stealing the show even more this series. The interchange between him and Varys was fantastic - Fish Pie!
I love what Coneth Hill is doing with that role and he is Varys in the same way Maisie just is Arya.

Ayra with Gendry & Jaqhen - even Hot Pie & Lommy "we should yield!" was brilliant, as was Yoren being a total badass with the goldcloaks.

Balon Greyjoy - "Hi Dad, I'm home!" "I'll not have my son dressed like a whore" - ouch.

I've always had a soft spot for those mad, bad, reaving sons of iron & salt and I look forward to seeing the Iron Fleet in battle. Shame we won't get to see Aeron or Victarion this series.

Things I didn't:
Brothel scene with Littlefinger & Roz. It was a good enough moment but, as others have already said, was very redundant in that we know LF cares for himself only and some of the stuff was quite gratuitous (post-fellatio mouth wiping...stay classy HBO)

Rakharo's off-screen death. I know there was scheduling conflicts and the like but please - don't kill characters off screen! Even a dying Rakharo ("It was...arrgh!") would have been better than what happened. Such a waste for a really enjoyable actor and role. He deserved better and so did we.

Stannis & Melissandre. It was implied in the books - much like Loras & Renly was, but it seemed very rushed and he didn't need much talking into breaking his vows. It weakened the "I don't bend" Stannis persona for me a bit. If it was going to happen, after the meeting with Renly was the place to do it. Seems *ahem* premature here.

So overall a weaker episode with a bit more filler, but still great TV. Looking forward to Renly and "the Beauty, the Beauty" next episode.

[ctg]

Why is it that to me Varys seems more sleezy than Little Finger? I mean to me, there's not a bit of honour and trust in that character, and I'd go any day and twice on Sundays to consult Little Finger. Not that I especially would trust his advices - knowing how he betrayed Ned.

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by ctg

Why is it that to me Varys seems more sleezy than Little Finger? I mean to me, there's not a bit of honour and trust in that character, and I'd go any day and twice on Sundays to consult Little Finger. Not that I especially would trust his advices - knowing how he betrayed Ned.

Not sure sleazy is the word you're looking for - sly perhaps.
The reason Varys manages to "keep paddling" as he so memorably put it in this episode, is because he appears so unthreatening. A paper 'Lord' with no armies, no gold, no allies or friends bar those who come to him demanding his aid. He should be the piece most easy to remove from the board and yet, precisely because he seems so easily replaced, he never seems to be and always remains one step ahead of the chasing pack.

Littlefinger states "knowledge is power" in episode one, and in that case Varys is more powerful than him because Littlefinger openly parades his knowledge, when wiser "little birds" know to only sing when no-one's around to hear

[ctg]

Maybe it's that but I have in the past liked that sort of characters. So I'd say it's something else that makes me so much so to afraid of him and trust the Little finger, as he's known liar and Varys is the schemer. Then again, maybe I'm wrong and maybe I shouldn't trust either one of them. It's just that I cannot decide which one of them is the smaller evil.

[King Stark]

I think the 2nd Tv series isnt great so far, its jumping around from scene to scene and my gf who didnt read the books is lost. Im not enjoying it so far and it annoys me. cause after watching the first series i went out and bought every book and read them 1 after the other

[svalbard]

Originally Posted by King Stark

I think the 2nd Tv series isnt great so far, its jumping around from scene to scene and my gf who didnt read the books is lost. Im not enjoying it so far and it annoys me. cause after watching the first series i went out and bought every book and read them 1 after the other

Think back to the first chapters in A Clash of Kings and I bet you thought they were disjointed or lacked the storytelling power of the first book. The trick was reading on and seeing the vision of Martin. Same goes for the TV series, although I am enjoying it so far.

[svalbard]

Originally Posted by ctg

Maybe it's that but I have in the past liked that sort of characters. So I'd say it's something else that makes me so much so to afraid of him and trust the Little finger, as he's known liar and Varys is the schemer. Then again, maybe I'm wrong and maybe I shouldn't trust either one of them. It's just that I cannot decide which one of them is the smaller evil.

Do not trust either of them is the way I would go and as for which is more evil? What is Evil in the context of ASOIAF.

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by King Stark

I think the 2nd Tv series isnt great so far, its jumping around from scene to scene and my gf who didnt read the books is lost. Im not enjoying it so far and it annoys me. cause after watching the first series i went out and bought every book and read them 1 after the other

Well I hope you enjoyed the books at least!
But if you examine it in your head, you'll see that the beginning of this series has all of the protagonists spread across several locations, so that will necessitate a bit of jumping from place to place to keep people informed as to what they're up too.

In the first series, Dany & Jon apart, everyone pretty much stayed together for the first few episodes. It wasn't until halfway when Tyrion was captured and the shitstorm unfolded, but by then it didn't matter as you were fully engaged on the rollercoaster ride to the end.