Who Was the Greatest Commander to Face the British?

[Vertigo]

This is the question being asked by the National Army Museum in an open online poll. Very specifically British I know but I thought it would be interesting to see how a poll conducted here might give different results to their open poll. (I already disagree strongly with the current leader on their poll!)

The poll and details of the names you can can vote for are here http://www.nam.ac.uk/exhibitions/onl...-greatest-foes

I have reproduced the list below along with a couple of comments on each.

Akbar Khan - Akbar led Afghan forces to victory against two redoubtable foes, the Sikhs and the British. He proved to be a formidable political force as well as a talented military commander.
Andrew Jackson - His victory at New Orleans was a decisive blow in the War of 1812, revealing Jackson to be adept at conventional warfare as well as the irregular warfare of the American frontier where he honed his skills.
Eduard Totleben - A masterful military engineer, Totleben was largely responsible for prolonging the misery inflicted upon British and French forces in the Crimea.
Erwin Rommel - A decorated veteran of the First World War, Rommel became a legend during the Second World War, spearheading Germany’s ‘Blitzkrieg’ of France and battling British forces in North Africa before finally falling victim to the vengeance of his own Führer.
George Washington - The first President of the United States, Washington made his name as a skilled and determined military commander during the American Revolution. Despite many setbacks he consolidated and guided his forces to victory and helped secure independence from Britain.
James Fitzjames, Duke of Berwick - After his father was deposed from the English throne, Berwick fled into exile and fought with the French and Spanish, inflicting a crushing defeat on British forces at Almanza in 1707.
Louis Botha - Botha proved an effective exponent of both conventional and guerrilla tactics. His men inflicted terrible losses on the British forces fighting in South Africa.
Maurice de Saxe - A master of strategy and tactics, Saxe outfoxed or defeated British and Allied armies on a number of occasions during the bloody wars of succession in 18th-century Europe.
Michael Collins - With his talent for organisation and logistics, Collins helped transform the Irish Republican Army into a powerful insurgent force that fought the British to a standstill.
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk - A seasoned veteran of the Balkan Wars, Kemal fought a tenacious defensive campaign at Gallipoli in 1915 which forced the Allied invasion force to withdraw. He would later become the ‘Father of modern Turkey’.
Napoleon Bonaparte - Bonaparte emerged from the turmoil and terror of revolution to become France’s greatest military commander, loved by his loyal troops, demonised by his enemies, feared and respected by all.
Ntshingwayo kaMahole - Ntshingwayo commanded the Zulu force that inflicted one of the most stunning defeats suffered by British forces, challenging the might of Queen Victoria’s Empire.
Osman Digna - Over two decades Digna fought numerous battles against the British and their Egyptian and Sudanese allies, as they attempted to occupy his territory or subdue his people.
Paul von Hindenburg - A classic 19th-century Prussian officer who embraced 20th-century total war. As a strategist and tactician Hindenburg contributed to the defeat of Russia in the East and confounded the French and British on the Western Front.
Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck - A master of bush warfare, Lettow-Vorbeck fought a four-year guerrilla campaign against the British in East Africa, tying down large numbers of troops, and inflicting heavy casualties upon them.
Rani of Jhansi - (Indian Mutiny) A resourceful and courageous leader of her people, the Rani fought to the death against British forces bent on revenge and retribution.
Riwha Titokowaru - A brave and resourceful Maori commander, Titokowaru resisted the British during the New Zealand Land Wars of the 19th century.
Santiago de Liniers - Liniers had an eventful military career, fighting on land and sea. When confronted with the British in South America he proved to be a resourceful and inspiring commander, but his involvement in the turbulent politics of that continent resulted in his demise.
Tipu Sultan - The ‘Tiger of Mysore’ was a renowned Indian war leader. A skilled tactician and innovator, Tipu embraced western methods to ensure that his forces could overwhelm his Indian rivals and match the British forces sent against him.
Tomoyuki Yamashita - Employing innovative military tactics, Yamashita led Japanese forces to one of the most decisive and shocking victories of the Second World War. But the excesses committed by his troops were to cost him his life.

[mosaix]

No Rommel?

[Vertigo]

Yep, fourth from the top (Erwin Rommel) and currently running third I think in the museum poll.


And also my choice!

[mosaix]

For some reason, Vertigo I assumed that they were in chronological order.

My choice too.

[Connavar]

If it wasnt about how a commander faced the british than i would say Napoleon is greater than Rommel. He didnt do greatly against the british though.

[Vertigo]

I felt that Napolean did all he did with full support from his government (after all he was essentially the government when he 'became' emperor). And yet he managed some major c**k ups!

On the other hand Rommel got dreadful support from Hitler and yet achieved an awful lot. If he had been given the proper support I believe he would have easily kicked us out of Africa. Also (even more conjecture, I know) I think that, had he been in overall command of the German army (and not so heavily interfered with by Hitler), the Germans would not have lost the war. Had he been listened to the Normandy landings probably would have failed. He almost certainly wouldn't have invaded Russia, and probably would have sued for peace rather than attempt invasion of Britain.

And on top of that he was an old school honourable general and gentleman!

[mosaix]

Originally Posted by Vertigo

On the other hand Rommel got dreadful support from Hitler and yet achieved an awful lot. If he had been given the proper support I believe he would have easily kicked us out of Africa.

And on top of all that, Vertigo the British were decoding all his Enigma wireless traffic.

[Vertigo]

Yes, very true, I'd forgotten that which is a bit naughty seeing as how I have worked at GCHQ a few times.

[J-Sun]

I've no business posting but I want to subscribe and usually only subscribe by posting. I only know the Western European and American commanders and I am an American so I naturally want to say Washington but I'd go for Rommel, too. Vertigo puts the whys of it very well.

[Vertigo]

You could always plump for Andrew Jackson as well J-Sun

Edit: actually one of the interesting things is some of the obscure names I'd never heard of and that sent me off wikiing (I figure the verb should work like skiing).

[J-Sun]

Originally Posted by Vertigo

You could always plump for Andrew Jackson as well J-Sun

Yep, I'd just give Washington the edge there.

[Lilmizflashythang]

Both Jackson and Washington were great from my opinion. Then again, look where I'm from. Jackson, however, wouldn't have been as great if the British didn't come over here and set fire to our White House in 1812.

[Vertigo]

Well that's true . Actually one of the problems I have with the list the museum has come up with is that some of them achieved their success more through British idiocy or arrogance than any particular brilliance on their part. For example: Tomoyuki Yamashita. I don't want to knock his success in taking Singapore when outnumbered 3 to 1, but frankly he should never have succeeded. With those odds the British should have been able to hold Singapore with little difficulty (even with their big guns facing the wrong way!) but pure arrogance - the belief that no one could do it - and pig-headed refusal to accept the facts when the reports started coming in really gave Tomoyuki Yamashita a relatively easy time of it.

[paranoid marvin]

It's arrogance that has led to Britain's greatest defeats but also to their greatest victories. Who but the pig-headed English have stood against the might of the German war-machine in 1939/40? Who but the British would have defied Napoleon when Europe was at his feet? That trickle of briny has been our saving grace on numerous occasions when the whole of Europe has been united against us, but we still made our mark.

Wellington leading his forces to victoiry over the French through a foothold in Portugal - 'The Few' defending the skies of England against Goering's all-conquering Luftwaffe. Bobby Moore leading his team to glory.. ok I'm getting carried away now, but you know what I mean.

Having said that , we would probably not have won the Battle of Britain if it hadn't been for pilots from occupied territories like Poland; it's unlikely that we would have forced the French back if it hadn't been for his 'Spanish ulcer' with the brave Spanish guerillas, Waterloo would have been Napoleon's greatest triumph if it hadn't been for Blucher's intervention at the 11th hour, and without the intervention of the US it's unlikely that D-Day would ever have occurred.

But I digress... All of the British defeats (since we became British) have been overseas. Yes Washington was a determined leader, but he had the Atlantic on his side. Napoleon was a great tachtician and would have been a tremendous threat to the British - if he had ever faced them on equal terms; he certainly ran rings with them away from the battle field.

The Zulu nation has to be admired for their bravery in several successful encounters with the British, however the greatest military leader (although it was admittedly against the English not the British) was the Dutch admiral De Ruyter. at a time when we 'ruled the waves' the Dutchman was a man to be feared when he took to the sea.

[svalbard]

Originally Posted by Vertigo

I felt that Napolean did all he did with full support from his government (after all he was essentially the government when he 'became' emperor). And yet he managed some major c**k ups!

On the other hand Rommel got dreadful support from Hitler and yet achieved an awful lot. If he had been given the proper support I believe he would have easily kicked us out of Africa. Also (even more conjecture, I know) I think that, had he been in overall command of the German army (and not so heavily interfered with by Hitler), the Germans would not have lost the war. Had he been listened to the Normandy landings probably would have failed. He almost certainly wouldn't have invaded Russia, and probably would have sued for peace rather than attempt invasion of Britain.

And on top of that he was an old school honourable general and gentleman!

But what did he achieve? How can you say that the Normandy landings would have failed if he was listened to? It is all conjecture and part of the myth of Rommel. I love how this guy is constantly talked up and yet his actual achievements pale in comparison to other German generals.