"Quentin Tarantino's Reservoir Dogs"

[J-Sun]

Reservoir Dogs for, I think, the second time - a Jacobean bloodbath about authenticity and loyalty that makes Pulp Fiction look like a big budget, peaceful walk in the park. If you hate Tarantino, you'll probably hate this but if you have any interest in his movies, then this is not to be missed and, if you just want to see a maybe brilliant kind of unpretentiously existentialist/nihilist atypical gangster flick set almost entirely in a warehouse, then it's worth a look. It has the same "complex thugs" and the same "how'd he get that cast?" and the same "fractured out of sequence narration" of Pulp Fiction but is more than just a practice run for it. PF is still the masterpiece in my book, but RD is good.

[Connavar]

Originally Posted by J-Sun

Reservoir Dogs for, I think, the second time - a Jacobean bloodbath about authenticity and loyalty that makes Pulp Fiction look like a big budget, peaceful walk in the park. If you hate Tarantino, you'll probably hate this but if you have any interest in his movies, then this is not to be missed and, if you just want to see a maybe brilliant kind of unpretentiously existentialist/nihilist atypical gangster flick set almost entirely in a warehouse, then it's worth a look. It has the same "complex thugs" and the same "how'd he get that cast?" and the same "fractured out of sequence narration" of Pulp Fiction but is more than just a practice run for it. PF is still the masterpiece in my book, but RD is good.

RD is better when it comes to actors work, the heist than PF imo. Although recently i saw he took complete scenes in that warehouse from City of Fire a Hong Kong film.

Tarantino was awesome gangster film, dialogue director in the 90s even in Jackie Brown. In his recent films he feels like a parody of himself. Kill Bill was the last i enjoyed because of his old style.

[J-Sun]

Originally Posted by Connavar

RD is better when it comes to actors work, the heist than PF imo. Although recently i saw he took complete scenes in that warehouse from City of Fire a Hong Kong film.

Tarantino was awesome gangster film, dialogue director in the 90s even in Jackie Brown. In his recent films he feels like a parody of himself. Kill Bill was the last i enjoyed because of his old style.

"Actors work" like performances delivered? I dunno - the guys in RD were pretty amazing but everything down to Stoltz and Arquette and even smaller parts were a blast in PF. Both are great there. And, yeah, I'll agree that RD was definitely more focused - as far as having a pure and (relatively) simple heist/gangster flick it is better but one of my favorite things in PF is the endlessly quotable lines - I think I'd deliver it in out-of-order snippets but I think I could probably write down most of PF from memory - while RD has great concepts and visuals it has far fewer memorable lines, I think.

Oh, and the soundtrack. PF has one of the best soundtracks ever and, while I get the point, the RD soundtrack is awful.

As far as the scenes, how close were they? I've heard he "stole a Mexican standoff from a Chinese film" or something which strikes me as silly - the whole thing of it being a "Mexican standoff" in a "Chinese flick" says it's common property. But, yeah, maybe the scenes are taken in detail. Thing is, Tarantino is kind of like a mashup thing - he steals from everybody but makes new stuff out of it all and, AFAIK, he'd be fine with people stealing from him - I haven't heard of him suing anybody for a scene or anything. And, most important to me, he shows me things that I wouldn't see otherwise - I'd never heard of most of the stuff he's swiped from but, by virtue of his doing so, now I have heard of them

As far as "even in Jackie Brown", I agree that that's probably the least of them - still watchable. As far as post-Kill Bill, I actually liked aspects of Death Proof, too - probably the next least of them and a little aside from the rest of his work to that point - but that's the last I've managed to see.

[Interference]

Reservoir Dogs was, I seem to remember, his first major feature film and is a stand-out piece of creativity. Coming almost straight out of film school to make this, he naturally homaged every influence he could think of, including smoke-hazed chats with his mates, I've no doubt.

Genius needs to feel relaxed, perhaps, and Hollywood pressures don't only come from the Studios and their executives. Careers can fluctuate. But I think that the best Tarantino is still to come, if he ever gets it together enough to remember why he loves film. And stops insisting on pretending to be an actor

[J-Sun]

Originally Posted by Interference

Reservoir Dogs was, I seem to remember, his first major feature film and is a stand-out piece of creativity. Coming almost straight out of film school to make this, he naturally homaged every influence he could think of, including smoke-hazed chats with his mates, I've no doubt.

It was - and that's a good point.

Originally Posted by Interference

And stops insisting on pretending to be an actor

Amen.

[Connavar]

Originally Posted by J-Sun

"Actors work" like performances delivered? I dunno - the guys in RD were pretty amazing but everything down to Stoltz and Arquette and even smaller parts were a blast in PF. Both are great there. And, yeah, I'll agree that RD was definitely more focused - as far as having a pure and (relatively) simple heist/gangster flick it is better but one of my favorite things in PF is the endlessly quotable lines - I think I'd deliver it in out-of-order snippets but I think I could probably write down most of PF from memory - while RD has great concepts and visuals it has far fewer memorable lines, I think.

Oh, and the soundtrack. PF has one of the best soundtracks ever and, while I get the point, the RD soundtrack is awful.

As far as the scenes, how close were they? I've heard he "stole a Mexican standoff from a Chinese film" or something which strikes me as silly - the whole thing of it being a "Mexican standoff" in a "Chinese flick" says it's common property. But, yeah, maybe the scenes are taken in detail. Thing is, Tarantino is kind of like a mashup thing - he steals from everybody but makes new stuff out of it all and, AFAIK, he'd be fine with people stealing from him - I haven't heard of him suing anybody for a scene or anything. And, most important to me, he shows me things that I wouldn't see otherwise - I'd never heard of most of the stuff he's swiped from but, by virtue of his doing so, now I have heard of them

As far as "even in Jackie Brown", I agree that that's probably the least of them - still watchable. As far as post-Kill Bill, I actually liked aspects of Death Proof, too - probably the next least of them and a little aside from the rest of his work to that point - but that's the last I've managed to see.

Actors work i mean as you said its a like a play its set mostly in that warehouse people talking. The actor have more chance to do their best, they make or break the film. Not as many flashy lines as PF, that film had more scenes changes, more film making going on. RD simply story that became more because of the actors. Man Tim Roth dying in the car,warehouse was something in how much he made out of a gunshot. Some immense actors in that film.

Hey I know Tarantino takes from everywhere. He mentions many noir writers as influence, other directors. RD reminded me of Richard Stark heist novel that was very similar style and then i saw him in interview saying i wanted a Stark like heist story. He knows his genre well.

He complete stole scenes from the hong kong film. How they were standing close to each other, how some of the scenes start and end. Its not a homage thing like in John Woo, Johnny To gangster films made their characters look, copy a movement from Jerry-Pierre Melville noir film from the 60s.

I was surprised when i saw RD and the exact copy in some that was the HK film. I bet he knew it was a cult classic in HK and not big Chow Yun-Fat, other gangster film from HK western fans knew better and would see what he did.

[Moonbat]

It's funny you say it is like a play because, I think, they are making a stage version of it.

[HoopyFrood]

I adore Reservoir Dogs. One of my favourite films. The closeness of it, the confined spaces, the relatively small cast makes for a chance for the dialogue to just sizzle and spark. Tarantino is not without his faults, but damn, when he gets the dialogue going, he is brilliant. I love that it takes place after what in other films would be considered the main event. That's not what concerns us. It's the fallout we need to see. Inspired.

Plus I love Steve Bruscemi to tiny, tiny bits and can watch him endlessly.

It's also got one of my favourite continuous shots from a film (yes, I actually have favourite continuous shots, I think they are a real test of everyone involved in the scene and a very welcome relief to the choppy, shakey amalgamation films seem to fall back on these days). Mr Blonde walking out of the warehouse, to his car, and back. So understated. We don't need to follow him, the shots could be cut. But sometimes you just don't need to hurry these things, particularly at that particular, infamous part of the film. It's just empathising his nonchalance, his complete lack of feeling, without anyone needing to say a damn word.

Yeah, maybe I'm a bit of a fan.

[Connavar]

Early Tarantino like this film makes me wonder why didnt Tim Roth do more films like them. Seeing him in Lie To Me was a bit sad after seeing his 90s films.

Steve Buscemi was so different in this film, he looked younger than he was in his roles like this. Some fidgety about him. Talk about having matured and become totally his character Nucky in Boardwalk Empire. Im glad he has a quality role these days too.

[J-Sun]

Originally Posted by Connavar

Actors work i mean as you said its a like a play its set mostly in that warehouse people talking. The actor have more chance to do their best, they make or break the film. Not as many flashy lines as PF, that film had more scenes changes, more film making going on. RD simply story that became more because of the actors. Man Tim Roth dying in the car,warehouse was something in how much he made out of a gunshot. Some immense actors in that film.

I see what you're saying - I still think the PF performances are great, too, but you're right that (a) there's more to obscure them and (b) if they weren't so great, you'd be less likely to notice. It is true that, in RD, it's all performance - if it isn't there, it's obvious and there's nothing to take its place. So, yeah, I'd bet as an actor you'd definitely have more of a "live without a net" feeling and really have to deliver. Roth definitely has the weight of it, but I also like Keitel's (of course) and also Buscemi's. In a way, he did a particularly fantastic job because he almost elevates his third-level character to par with the top two without distracting from Roth/Keitel or hamming it up or anything - he's just becomes the "professional" - the sane psycho.

Originally Posted by Connavar

Hey I know Tarantino takes from everywhere. He mentions many noir writers as influence, other directors. RD reminded me of Richard Stark heist novel that was very similar style and then i saw him in interview saying i wanted a Stark like heist story. He knows his genre well.

He complete stole scenes from the hong kong film. How they were standing close to each other, how some of the scenes start and end. Its not a homage thing like in John Woo, Johnny To gangster films made their characters look, copy a movement from Jerry-Pierre Melville noir film from the 60s.

I was surprised when i saw RD and the exact copy in some that was the HK film. I bet he knew it was a cult classic in HK and not big Chow Yun-Fat, other gangster film from HK western fans knew better and would see what he did.

I dunno - he would have had to know it was Chow Yun-Fat. Either way, you got me curious but it is very obscure - Wikipedia and Amazon want it to be a book or music or something and if you specifically locate the movie, you get people complaining about both the dubs and subtitles so maybe I'll never know after all. (Subtitles drive me nuts even when good but they beat dubs - but this is why I almost never see non-English films, unfortunately. I think the only one I actually own is Das Boot - which is dubbed, but at least usually by the actors themselves.) Also it sounds worse as its more a straightforward-sounding police procedural (though with an undercover cop in a heist gone wrong) and with a romance/domestic subplot. Still, I'll keep it in mind - thanks.

Originally Posted by HoopyFrood

Plus I love Steve Bruscemi to tiny, tiny bits and can watch him endlessly.

I wrote the above about Buscemi to Conn before I read your post because I was replying to him but got distracted. I haven't seen him in enough things to say he's a favorite but he's one of the best things in Fargo (which didn't entirely work for me as a film overall) and it seems like I've seen him in something else where he was good and I obviously agree with you that's he's great in RD.

Originally Posted by HoopyFrood

It's also got one of my favourite continuous shots from a film (yes, I actually have favourite continuous shots, I think they are a real test of everyone involved in the scene and a very welcome relief to the choppy, shakey amalgamation films seem to fall back on these days). Mr Blonde walking out of the warehouse, to his car, and back. So understated. We don't need to follow him, the shots could be cut. But sometimes you just don't need to hurry these things, particularly at that particular, infamous part of the film. It's just empathising his nonchalance, his complete lack of feeling, without anyone needing to say a damn word.

I hadn't thought about it that way - in retrospect, I probably "felt" about it that way but hadn't consciously realized that was what was going on. I look forward to keeping your thoughts in mind the next time I see it.

[J-Sun]

Originally Posted by Connavar

Early Tarantino like this film makes me wonder why didnt Tim Roth do more films like them. Seeing him in Lie To Me was a bit sad after seeing his 90s films.

So now I miss your post replying to Hoopy. Lie to Me was that TV show where he played a sort House-but-different-no-really kind of character right? I suppose for a TV show it was okay but I only watched an episode or two. I'd agree that he didn't seem to have anything on "Orange" or "Ringo".

[paranoid marvin]

The greatest thing for me about Tarantino is his ability to take actors who are largely 'past it' and make them shine; who'd have thought Travolta would have been capable of that performance in PF? Also having seemingly free access to Harvey Keitel was a major plus point.

As for the music in RD being bad; are you kidding?? Little Green Bag, Stuck in the Middle, Fool for Love, MAgic Carpet Ride etc are fab songs. The CD is excellent.

RD is a great film; as has been said the supposedly 'main part' - ie the heist - is hardly featured; it's all about the build up and aftermath. The difference with PF is that that film has plenty of quotable lines, whilst RD is more about the memorable conversations. Who can't listen to the ' Like a Virgin' speech and not raise a little smile? Or the discussion over tipping the waitress?

Loved Jackie Brown as well, and although Dusk til Dawn is entertaining , none of his other films have matched those 3.

[HoopyFrood]

Originally Posted by J-Sun

I hadn't thought about it that way - in retrospect, I probably "felt" about it that way but hadn't consciously realized that was what was going on. I look forward to keeping your thoughts in mind the next time I see it.

I have a habit of violently attaching meaning to everything I see and read! Hazards of a literature and film theory background. It's only my take on it anyway, and it's just generally a really nice shot. Such technical aspects shouldn't be overlooked when making films.

I think what makes a good film great is those unconscious things. My seminar leader had a theory that the genre of film should be connected to feeling (horror, romance, suspense), and the rest (western, sci-fi, etc) is just setting. A really good film will grab you by the raw emotions and pull you along, and it's those moments you remember the most, the ones that stay with you, when you leave. Everyone remembers that torture scene for being so visceral, but also because of Mr Blonde's attitude and our disbelief that he's actually dancing around as he does it. You don't take note of how you're feeling at the time, but you can bet your ass it'll stay with you because of it!

You didn't like Fargo?! *massive gasp* Another film I love, mostly for how incredibly understated it is. And Marge Gunderson. Dear, dear Margie.

If nothing else about the music, you definitely can't listen to Stealers Wheel in the same way. Amma right?

And ohmigod, I watched From Dusk Till Dawn so many times in the school summer holidays, I could practically quote it.

[Connavar]

J-Sun:

I like Keitel, Buschemi's acting in RD alot too. Those 3 carried the film really well for me. Im a big Buschemi fan today thanks to Boardwalk Empire and im ashamed to hear you and Hoopy talk about Fargo. I havent seen it despite i adore Coan films.

Also dont get me wrong about Pulp Fiction i think its awesome, cool film. I just find the simple way RD was done to be so convincing. Still i need re-watch his early films.

[J-Sun]

Originally Posted by HoopyFrood

I have a habit of violently attaching meaning to everything I see and read! Hazards of a literature and film theory background. It's only my take on it anyway, and it's just generally a really nice shot. Such technical aspects shouldn't be overlooked when making films.

I think what makes a good film great is those unconscious things. My seminar leader had a theory that the genre of film should be connected to feeling (horror, romance, suspense), and the rest (western, sci-fi, etc) is just setting. A really good film will grab you by the raw emotions and pull you along, and it's those moments you remember the most, the ones that stay with you, when you leave. Everyone remembers that torture scene for being so visceral, but also because of Mr Blonde's attitude and our disbelief that he's actually dancing around as he does it. You don't take note of how you're feeling at the time, but you can bet your ass it'll stay with you because of it!

[snip]

If nothing else about the music, you definitely can't listen to Stealers Wheel in the same way. Amma right?

No doubt about that. As far as the film theory, that was really interesting. I have no theory or education behind films - I basically just "watch flicks" - but that's some interesting stuff to think about.

[unsnip]

You didn't like Fargo?! *massive gasp* Another film I love, mostly for how incredibly understated it is. And Marge Gunderson. Dear, dear Margie.

Well, it'd be fair to say I mostly did. It's a "good" movie and I was always interested while watching it but after it was over, contemplating the ending, I just didn't ultimately like it like I might have. Spoilery stuff: I just found the ending too "comfortable", sort of. The good decent people triumph over the evil guys and go back about their business with most of us not noticing the simple quiet heroine-ism that allows them to live their good lives. I mean, that's a fine message (if that is the message) but I just found a little too affirming of the status quo or something. Maybe I'm wrong and/or not making sense, but that's the way I recall it hitting me. But Marge (that's McDormand's character, right?) was great, I agree. Favorite line from the film, though, was actually Buscemi's - something like "You should see the other guy". That's how you make the old joke all shiny and new.

Originally Posted by Connavar

[...]im ashamed to hear you and Hoopy talk about Fargo. I havent seen it despite i adore Coan films.

Well, despite it not being my favorite, I could definitely recommend it at the same time as it's very well done and probably would strike a lot of people more favorably overall than me.

Also dont get me wrong about Pulp Fiction i think its awesome, cool film. I just find the simple way RD was done to be so convincing. Still i need re-watch his early films.

Gotcha - I think it's safe to say we both love at least both his first films.

-- Oops - forgot this:

Originally Posted by paranoid marvin

The greatest thing for me about Tarantino is his ability to take actors who are largely 'past it' and make them shine; who'd have thought Travolta would have been capable of that performance in PF?

Not me - that just completely amazed me.

The difference with PF is that that film has plenty of quotable lines, whilst RD is more about the memorable conversations. Who can't listen to the ' Like a Virgin' speech and not raise a little smile? Or the discussion over tipping the waitress?

That's a good point about the entire conversation vs. particular lines. I actually thought he might have been trying a little too hard on the "Like a Virgin" bit and it seemed a little out of place, but the "tip" conversation was perfect.