Books like your wip?

[springs]

John's take on it, and as an ex bookseller I totally get this, is that you need to be able to tell the chains where the book goes, who it gets stocked beside. Now, if you mention some older big sellers, there's already a raft of writers in there, and yours needs to stand out amongst bigger, more established names. Which means for a first time author, you'll struggle to stand out.

But, if you were writing, for the sake of argument, vampire teen romance,you were on a winner about 4 years ago.

Which means you can't win, entirely, since (i'm learning, painfully) a book takes a bit of time to write, so you either hope to be lucky, and get on a convenient bandwagon, or you find a way to keep up with debut authors.

The way the book trade does it is using bookseller magazine (hard to get, not 100% sure you can get it even on order, but if you know a friendly bookshop owner they might let you have a look at it), times literary supplement, and libraries - ours has a lovely end m on debut authors and I picked one up the other day and put it back, but it's got in my head, and I suspect I'm gonna head back and lift it, it was sort of a YA apocalyptic tale, looked good). And fan forums, like the chrons are good for genre stuff. Like um, sci fi and fantasy....

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by Hex

I am aware that it's useful to be able to situate one's work in the context of recent books that have come out so that it's clear what market you're aiming at

In my opinion I think we, as aspiring writers, should aim to write the story as we need to tell it; to do otherwise is going to feel forced and won't be as good.

If you can take what's fashionable and bend your story towards that great, but I think we need to learn the craft of writing first. Write the second story to suit the market.

[Warren_Paul]

Originally Posted by Glitch

Maybe ask someone like John Jarrold about the site, or other source? Does he still frequent the chrons?

Has not for a long time now, I think.

[TheDustyZebra]

Well, mine's easy enough so far -- I talk to the children's librarians and check out new books that look like they are along the same lines. It would be infinitely harder if I were writing an adult fantasy or SF book, because, sadly, neither of our local libraries has much in those sections.

[Gumboot]

Originally Posted by Warren_Paul

I think its a standard thing in UK for query letters to include mention of similar authors to your book.

Here is a quote off John Jarrold's website, who is a big name in the publishing industry:

But I'm guessing it's just not all agents/publishers who ask for this.

I think it is so that they know you are keeping up with the industry.

I definitely think, regardless of what you're telling a publisher, it's a good idea to know this sort of stuff. It does seem to vary a lot from place to place. Tor, for example, also explicitly said not to send a query letter! The only thing they're interested in is your actual work.

[Warren_Paul]

Originally Posted by Gumboot

I definitely think, regardless of what you're telling a publisher, it's a good idea to know this sort of stuff. It does seem to vary a lot from place to place. Tor, for example, also explicitly said not to send a query letter! The only thing they're interested in is your actual work.

That's interesting. What's more interesting is the fact that they still ask for a synopsis + cover letter with a bit about the genre your book belongs to and your biography, which is technically still a query letter, just missing the mini-synopsis paragraph.

Don't send submissions or inquiries by email or fax. We do not respond to emailed or faxed submissions, queries, or inquiries about the status of submissions.

You mean we have to print it out... ...that's a bit behind the times. I hope they don't expect me to print out the entire manuscript if they request a full. that's like $100 to print.

In other news...

I also noticed that HarperCollinsNZ just take full manuscripts, straight of the bat, not partials or samples. I always thought it was a bit strange. Notice recently though they have put up a 'no unsolicited submissions' sign because of all the horrible manuscripts they were getting sent. So now you have to send a query letter.

[James Coote]

There is a concept of 'product-market fit'. If you google for it, you'll get a bunch of buzz-word filled blogs from venture capitalists, but it basically means your product meeting some demand within a market.

That market doesn't necessarily have to have competitors in it, but if it does, you have to say how your product will differ, how it will 'better fit' the needs of the market etc.

In your case, it is just about thinking what sort of person is going to read your book and why. A useful exercise marketing people do is dream up an imaginary 'typical user' of their product:

"Thomas is 35, urban professional, married, no kids. Travels to work in the city by train during rush hour, and prefers to read the paper in the mornings if it isn't so crowded that he can't even get the damn thing open without poking someone's eye out. Otherwise, will read or play games on an ipad on the evening commute home.

"Thomas feels the 'hero' role is staid and overdone, having seen too many hollywood comic book film adaptations, and is looking for a good anti-hero to balance. Likewise, his office-drone-worker job makes him yearn for an everyman he can sympathyse with"

etc etc

Of course, this is just to visualise and humanise otherwise bland statistics about the 'target demographic'.

Also isn't it quite dangerous reading something a bit too close to your own writing as you may find yourself subconsciously immitating it?

Edit: I wouldn't talk to a publisher about any of this stuff as you're basically second guessing them / trying to do their job for them and they're almost certainly better at it than you. You don't necessarily have to think of a 'typical reader' or the sort of person who would enjoy your book in marketing terms and marketing speak either, just have an idea of who, aside from you / 'people like me', would read it

[Gumboot]

Originally Posted by Warren_Paul

That's interesting. What's more interesting is the fact that they still ask for a synopsis + cover letter with a bit about the genre your book belongs to and your biography, which is technically still a query letter, just missing the mini-synopsis paragraph.

It's not a query letter because it's accompanying the manuscript.

Originally Posted by Warren_Paul

You mean we have to print it out... ...that's a bit behind the times. I hope they don't expect me to print out the entire manuscript if they request a full. that's like $100 to print.

Yes, you have to print the entire thing. Although it shouldn't cost you anywhere near $100. Anyone who's serious about writing should own a decent printer. Which means a mono-laser. (You can get one for a little more than $100). I think I worked out it costs me about 4c a page to print my manuscript. At 250,000 words it's about 600 pages, so about $24.00.

The expensive thing is shipping it to the US.

Originally Posted by Warren_Paul

I also noticed that HarperCollinsNZ just take full manuscripts, straight of the bat, not partials or samples. I always thought it was a bit strange. Notice recently though they have put up a 'no unsolicited submissions' sign because of all the horrible manuscripts they were getting sent. So now you have to send a query letter.

HarperCollins used to take only the first three chapters, and for non-fiction (which they take unsolicited) it's still only the first three chapters. They only take the entire manuscript for adult fiction, but it has to come from an agent (no query letter).

[Gumboot]

Tor's archaic practises are a bit of a nightmare for a non-American, actually. They don't do emailed responses, so you have to include a self-addressed envelope in your package, for the reply. Fine.

If you live in the USA.

You won't believe the adventure I had to go through to get that sorted! You could write a high-fantasy trilogy about it. I basically had to eventually get someone in the US to post me an envelope with another identical envelope inside it, so I could post the second envelope back to the US with my submission, so they could post it back to me with their reply.

When all they needed was a "no reply" email address where they could send out a standard-form response email (either yes or no) with a click of a button. From Tor. One of the largest and most successful sci-fi/fantasy publishers in the world.

And it's precisely this sort of thing which is why I turned my attention on ePublishing, because the traditional publishers, just like the film studios and the network broadcasters and the record labels are dinosaurs who don't understand the way the internet has totally rewritten all of their models. They're afraid of the new technology, and they're reluctant to get involved in it, and for those willing to take the plunge before them there's a fortune to be made.

[Warren_Paul]

Originally Posted by Gumboot

Yes, you have to print the entire thing. Although it shouldn't cost you anywhere near $100. Anyone who's serious about writing should own a decent printer. Which means a mono-laser. (You can get one for a little more than $100). I think I worked out it costs me about 4c a page to print my manuscript. At 250,000 words it's about 600 pages, so about $24.00.

The expensive thing is shipping it to the US.

Maybe so, I don't have a laser printer though, just an inkjet. -maybe time to trade it in if laser printers are so cheap these days. Cartridges cost $25-30 a bop, printing a manuscript that size would easily use 2 cartridges, and then some + paper costs. But I was talking about commercial printing -such as Warehouse Stationary, which is .20 cents per page.

Edit: I'd imagine formatted correctly 250k words would take way more than 600 pages. My 133k manuscript takes 560...

GRRM writes books that size and he always talks about how his manuscripts are 1,500 or so pages long.

[Gumboot]

Originally Posted by Warren_Paul

Maybe so, I don't have a laser printer though, just an inkjet. -maybe time to trade it in if laser printers are so cheap these days. Cartridges cost $25-30 a bop, printing a manuscript that size would easily use 2 cartridges, and then some + paper costs. But I was talking about commercial printing -such as Warehouse Stationary, which is .20 cents per page.

Get a laser. You will wonder why you didn't make the shift earlier.

Originally Posted by Warren_Paul

Edit: I'd imagine formatted correctly 250k words would take way more than 600 pages. My 133k manuscript takes 560...

Sorry you're right, yeah, more like 900 pages. Although my 113K manuscript is only 440 pages correctly formatted...

Originally Posted by Warren_Paul

GRRM writes books that size and he always talks about how his manuscripts are 1,500 or so pages long.

Martin's shortest book is 280K...

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by Gumboot

Get a laser. You will wonder why you didn't make the shift earlier.

Absolutely. My mono laser was given to me by a friend about six years ago, with a toner cartridge he said was on its last legs. I haven't changed it yet, after printing hundreds and hundreds of pages.

[Warren_Paul]

Originally Posted by Gumboot

Although my 113K manuscript is only 440 pages correctly formatted...

Lots of descriptive narrative?

I try not to have big paragraphs, which means for me, it pushes the page count up a bit. Lots of dialogue can push the page count up too, without the word count following by much.


I will think about laser printer, although I'm not sure I'll be sending manuscripts to many places that require me to print them out anyway.

[Gumboot]

Originally Posted by Warren_Paul

Lots of descriptive narrative?

I try not to have big paragraphs, which means for me, it pushes the page count up a bit. Lots of dialogue can push the page count up too, without the word count following by much.


I will think about laser printer, although I'm not sure I'll be sending manuscripts to many places that require me to print them out anyway.

Fair enough. I edit on paper, so even if everyone I was submitting to took digital copies, I'd still use a printer extensively.

[HMart]

Originally Posted by Glitch

In my opinion I think we, as aspiring writers, should aim to write the story as we need to tell it; to do otherwise is going to feel forced and won't be as good.

I've seen this advice everywhere. It's the single greatest piece of writing advice, in my opinion. Words to live by.