2.11: The Walking Dead - Judge, Jury, Executionery

[ctg]

In the dwindling light of humanity one with the highest morals suffers. I'd like to ask you fans what is right, what is wrong, and what would you had done?

[Huttman]

I was not very fond of this episode. It was a cheesy scene at the end. The walkers are not exactly quiet-like and it could not have snuck up behind Dale (just how much can a walker eat?). It was the same cheesiness that I commented on about the walkers sneaking into their camp. Carl irked me too, but he is just a kid and would have probably acted that way. I can see Rick is starting to feel influenced about being 'colder', but in the end, we saw what happened, and that made me happy. It was nice to see everybody...content with one another, especially Dale and Shane. Shane seems to be genuinely trying to be calmer, or so it seemed to me. I thought how they treated Randall(?) was overly harsh. Even though they showed the scene when he was talking to Carl, you could see his intention was to get back to his group, but I really can't blame him considering how he was treated. Not a very feel good episode in my book, but I think that was the point.

[Huttman]

Oh, what would I have done? I would have done what Rick finally decided on.

[ctg]

Originally Posted by Huttman

I was not very fond of this episode. It was a cheesy scene at the end. The walkers are not exactly quiet-like and it could not have snuck up behind Dale (just how much can a walker eat?).

Walkers aren't always moaning or groaning and if you put your headphones on, you'll hear him groaning behind Dale, while the old man stares the disembowelled cow. And for a moment I thought that the cow had turned and I really didn't see the zombie coming. When he did, it shocked me even if it was a bit cheesy.

It was the same cheesiness that I commented on about the walkers sneaking into their camp.

You mean in the first season?

Carl irked me too, but he is just a kid and would have probably acted that way.

Doesn't all boys act like that? They don't listen, but all the things that are so dangerous because that is fun in their mind. I was hiding my mouth in a shock when I saw him throwing stones at him and thinking that this won't end well. And then pulling the gun and edging closer, and closer was just a moment when I wanted to scream at him, "Shoot the bastard."

But no, he didn't. Bloody little creep.

I thought how they treated Randall(?) was overly harsh. Even though they showed the scene when he was talking to Carl, you could see his intention was to get back to his group, but I really can't blame him considering how he was treated. Not a very feel good episode in my book, but I think that was the point.

It was exactly the point, and I agree, Randall is going to bring bad things to the group. He knew that if he would have said that he did rape the woman, he would had been done there and then. But I agree, in Rick's shoes, I'd had done the same and saved his life and what bit of humanity were left in me. All in all, it's so hard to give up on old customs and practices even if you know that in the long run it's like pissing in the wind, because the "other" group is living in anarchy.

[jojajihisc]

My wife says I need to suspend my disbelief but how exactly does a zombie that you are holding off from getting to your throat suddenly rip through your torso like it's a worn pillow case? Oh well.

[ctg]

Originally Posted by jojajihisc

My wife says I need to suspend my disbelief but how exactly does a zombie that you are holding off from getting to your throat suddenly rip through your torso like it's a worn pillow case? Oh well.

It's a very good question. I don't know, but I guess they'd to figure out something to get rid of Dale. And you could ask the same question on the man who lost his nose after the bar fight scene. How easy it is for one to tear it off so easily? Or Lori sticking the screwdriver straight into the biter's eye, when it was pushing his face through the wind-shield and completely miss the cranium.

[Culhwch]

Originally Posted by jojajihisc

My wife says I need to suspend my disbelief but how exactly does a zombie that you are holding off from getting to your throat suddenly rip through your torso like it's a worn pillow case? Oh well.

Well logic would dictate, surely, that as they decompose the strength in their muscles would rapidly decline as well, so you have a point there. Definitely suspension of disbelief territory.

I really hated seeing Dale die. He was just about the last reasonable, moral personality in the group, although I guess Andrea did start to swing that way towards the end of the episode.

The list of characters that I despise continues to grow, with Carl joining Shane and Lori. Sometimes I feel that Rick would have been better off not finding them...

[Huttman]

Originally Posted by ctg

Walkers aren't always moaning or groaning and if you put your headphones on, you'll hear him groaning behind Dale, while the old man stares the disembowelled cow. And for a moment I thought that the cow had turned and I really didn't see the zombie coming. When he did, it shocked me even if it was a bit cheesy.

Ha! I thought that for a moment too, zombie cow! You could tell Dale was frightened, and when someone is scared their senses are usually heightened, meaning I'm sure he would have heard that walker. I forgot how easily he tore through his gut, also. I hope this type of suspense writing keeps to a higher standard than this episode had.

I'm not really looking for spoilers here, but did Dale die in the graphic novels? If he did, how? Just curious.

Originally Posted by ctg

You mean in the first season?

Yes, precisely.

[Culhwch]

From recollection, they never did explain how the walkers made it into camp without disturbing the early warning system they had set up.

[jojajihisc]

Originally Posted by Culhwch

I really hated seeing Dale die. He was just about the last reasonable, moral personality in the group, although I guess Andrea did start to swing that way towards the end of the episode.

I liked the old boy too. Maybe we'll see him again as the righteous zombie.

I'm starting to get the impression that the writers want to impress upon us that the only way to survive long-term in this kind of world is to adopt a Shane-like attitude of shoot first ask questions later. Maybe Carl will grow up (if he can survive to adulthood) to be like Shane and Lori's second child (possibly father by Shane) will turn out like Rick. Wouldn't that be a peach?

Originally Posted by Culhwch

The list of characters that I despise continues to grow, with Carl joining Shane and Lori. Sometimes I feel that Rick would have been better off not finding them...

To be honest there are very few I like. Daryl maybe. I watch because the post-apocalyptic setting has that much draw for me. It seems like this season they are really emphasizing a variety of moral/ethical dilemmas. I'd like to see them hit the road again.

[ctg]

Originally Posted by Huttman

I'm not really looking for spoilers here, but did Dale die in the graphic novels? If he did, how? Just curious.

This is not a real spoiler as the TV show is so much different from the comics but you can find the explanation from underneath (paint the area).



Dale died much, much later in comics. They were heading towards Washington DC and they encountered a horde. He left his guard down during attack and end up bitten. Frightened of showing Andrea pain, he hid his wound.

When the night came, he left the van and disappeared into the forest, being abducted by the mysterious Hunters. When Dale woke up later on in their camp, Chris introduced himself and told the old man that they were eating him piece by piece.

However, Dale thought that he would have the last laugh as he was already infected and hoped to spread the disease to the "Hunters." They were furious and beat him up. Then they left his unconscious body in front of church the survivors were occupying to use him as a bait .



And the thing about Andrea can be found from underneath.

Andrea was Dale's girlfriend, and one of the people who kept him going. He and Andrea adopted Ben and Billy after the boys' parents died. Despite their relationship, Dale never really believed that a young and beautiful woman like Andrea could truly love a broken down old fart like Dale. He even went so far as to give his blessing for her to go through with relationships with other men, thinking that she was staying with him out of guilt and pity. Despite Andrea's insistence to the contrary, Dale had problems believing her. On Dale's deathbed, Andrea poured her heart out to Dale and promised him that she loved him.

[Huttman]

Thank you for that, ctg. I read it and look forward maybe someday reading those graphic novels. Still a great show and looking forward to 16 episodes next season!

[Connavar]

Frankly this ep or rather the last half made disappointed and lose all goodwill, respect the writers had build season two with me.

The first ep Dale made very good points about keeping humanity and not killing a guy just because they are too lazy to keep him a prisoner, have other ideas. Everything was a fine, good ep until it became too predictable that it was comical and made me laugh how dead Dale was even before he went out alone in the field.

They overplayed their hand with Dale, the zombie whole ep that Dale death felt very cheap. He makes too much sense, he can make Rick not act as violent, crazy as Shane so we must kill him......

[ctg]

You got it right. They had a long conversation over should he go or not, and they did end up with go as it'll do "things" to the other characters. I won't post links as got complained for it in the last thread.

[JagLover]

Rick should have killed him (and would have in the later comics with the same scenario), but they couldn't show that on TV so I was half expecting the result we got.

A bit of a slow episode but with an interesting moral dilemna