A Feast for Crows - NO SPOILERS, PLEASE

[Ursa major]

This thread is for people who have read no further than the end of A Feast for Crows to discuss the book without the fear of spoilers from later books "informing" the conversation.

(If you have read any of the later books, feel free to join in, but keep your posts limited to information found only in A Feast for Crows and the three earlier books in the series, A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords.)

[firstfist]

I'm about halfway through this puppy now, and I must say that I am enjoying it immensely more than I did the first time around. Not having a few of my favorite characters in the book irked me more than I think I let on to myself while reading it my first go around. This time I know that as soon as I finish up I have Dance, with Jon and Tyrion waiting for me within, ready to go.

[Marvin]

I too am roughly half way through - and to be honest have slowed right down. Up untill now I was spending most of my (very rare and precious) free time reading Ica and Fire.

Originally Posted by firstfist

Not having a few of my favorite characters in the book irked me more than I think I let on to myself while reading it my first go around.

I was thinking along very similar lines. All my favourite people and places have been replaced with others I just cant seem to care about. Brienne - yawn! Dont have any attachment to the people of Dorne. The Ironborn are mildly interesting. Cersei seems very one dimensional. One of my previous faves Arya is not even in Westeros any more - nor is good old Samwell! The whole book has had a certain 'meanwhile, elsewhere' feeling. I was gonna post a petulant 'give me a reason to go on' thread, but I have decided to suck it up and knuckle down.
I'm probably Ice and Fired out having read nothing else back to back since Christmas. Perhaps a dip into something else short and sweet, for a bit of relief from getting to know a character only to have them brutally murdered - or quietly disposed of (if tales of the Onion Knight's demise are correct!)
Rant over

[springs]

I'm also halfway through and struggling, badly. to the point I'm ready to chuck it in the bin and am speed reading. (ADWD comes out in paperback in 10 days, so I want it out of the way.)
To my mind, he has two very engaging characters in Jon and Tyrion who pretty well set the books on fire and are my main interest in reading. To have both out of this one seems to be very challenging, and (of course I won't know this til I read ADWD) I'm not sure why he couldn't have Tyrion in this one and Jon in the next - unless Tyrion goes to the wall, which didn't seem to be what was ahead.

So, um, crawling to the end, very very disappointed, quite frankly a waste of the dough I spent on it....

[Marvin]

Also may I thank Firstfist for making use of the sticky linked; no spoiler; book specific thread (that I recommended.)
I was beginning to think that Ursa might cut them loose due to the complete lack of interest!

[Warren_Paul]

Originally Posted by springs1971

I'm also halfway through and struggling, badly. to the point I'm ready to chuck it in the bin and am speed reading. (ADWD comes out in paperback in 10 days, so I want it out of the way.)
To my mind, he has two very engaging characters in Jon and Tyrion who pretty well set the books on fire and are my main interest in reading. To have both out of this one seems to be very challenging, and (of course I won't know this til I read ADWD) I'm not sure why he couldn't have Tyrion in this one and Jon in the next - unless Tyrion goes to the wall, which didn't seem to be what was ahead.

So, um, crawling to the end, very very disappointed, quite frankly a waste of the dough I spent on it....

Yes, it is the weakest book in the series so far, but I think there was just too much story to fit in one book. Of course he could have gone the other route and split the story between both books and have all PoVs in both.

AFfC introduced new PoV characters, especially Asha's family which I guess is a big detour from the original story, but needed for what is to come. That also makes it harder for us to read, because we are already used to the original PoV characters. We are like: "Who are these people to us".


I get the feeling that GRRM was struggling with writing his story around the time of AFfC?

[springs]

I get that sense, and, this feeds into a different argument, but is it a deadline thing? I must have one ready, and I know he's not the fastest writer in the world. Is it a case of art as cash cow, which as a model, is very very poor. And where was the editor, saying George! choose Tyrion or Jon, but make one of them appear in this book.... I've said it before, but this seems like an awful awful lot of padding. (on the other hand I know I'm not an epic fantasy fan, although I have over the years ploughed through LOTR, Eddings, belgariad, brooks, sanderson, and quite a few others so I'm not totally anti....) but I do like some action, and I'm not getting enough and the little I'm getting seems formaliac, in my extremely humble opinion. )but paying....)

[Warren_Paul]

I'm not allowed to post spoilers, so I can't say why particular characters aren't present in the book. but there is a reason.


I don't think GRRM works to deadlines, so I'm leaning towards more personal reasons that are none of our business. He did take a big break after AFfC, but that might be because of the HBO show and how he helped get it started.

I don't think padding is necessarily unneeded, its a personal taste thing, and my tastes lean towards padding because I feel it helps flesh out characters and world.

AFfC is a lot more on the political side of the story than action, which once again makes it hard to read, but still needed for further parts of the story.

[viZion]

I can tell you why certain characters weren't in AFFC and it's not a spoiler. I mean, we know where everyone is at the end of ASOS. Anyway, he split the books by geography. In AFFC he tells the story of all the characters in Westeros. In ADWD he goes into the other continent. There are a few outliers like Arya (AFFC), and Jon and Bran (ADWD) but for the most part, that's how it's split. I think he even explains that in a brief passage in AFFC.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Warren_Paul]

True, that doesn't necessarily spoil anything. I was thinking a little more detail than that.

And in a simplified sense, your right about the way it's split being the reason certain character(s) are missing from the book, except the nights watch is missing from AFfC -apart from a storyline involving sam, or was that in a previous book? So long since I read them they all blend together now- and it is part of Westeros.

Arya doesn't really count in this situation I think.

A bit of Jon could have been included in AFFC, but, oh well...

the passage you refer to is an acknowledgements sort of chapter right at the end, not actually part of the story.

[firstfist]

I was just saying that I was wrong to discount the book on my first go around. I had reasons that weren't completely legitimate, and let them ruin the reading for me.

Is this book my favorite in the series? No, but it is still probably my least favorite. That being said, I am still enjoying it quite a bit. Still a MUCH better read than much that I have read.

Originally Posted by Warren_Paul

AFfC introduced new PoV characters, especially Asha's family which I guess is a big detour from the original story, but needed for what is to come. That also makes it harder for us to read, because we are already used to the original PoV characters. We are like: "Who are these people to us".

This about sums up my original gripe with AFfC, in that time was spent on those I don't yet know, so have close to no attachment to. Then the other POVs (minus a select few) are some that I thought I didn't care about at the time.

[springs]

I understand why he split it, as you say he explained it, but it was still an editorial decision to do that, they could have done it many many other ways. I'm ploughing through it, but right at this point in time, finding it an absolute chore. (In fact, if ADWD hadn't got such good reviews, I'd have chucked it away by now...)

[firstfist]

On another note, anyone have any theories as to why the POV chapter names arn't just flat out their names rather than a description? For the most part Martin has titled the chapters Tyron or Sansa, and suddenly they are, say, The Captain of Gaurds rather than Hota.

[springs]

I wondered about that and put it down to perhaps the changes of a writer over a space of time, perhaps he wanted something with a little more poetry to it, or linked more closely to the plot rather than the character. i wondered, too, if he had got that he liked it, and if so would have changed it in the earlier books? A question if I ever meet him

[Graeme Brown Winnipe]

I just finished reading Feast today, and actually I thought it was fantastic. Right from the opening, I could tell it was going to be a different sort of novel, not packed with action and tension like books 1, 2 and 3. When I read it, I was on the lookout for themes and symbollism, and it was there in earnest. Considering the challenge he faced pulling that kind of divide off, George managed it very well, something it takes a master of his calibre to pull off. I'm impressed and super pumped about Dance with Dragons!