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Old 25th January 2012, 09:26 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

You can have things delivered from Waterstones as well as pick up at the store. For me though, having the option to go to the store is actually a bonus.

Did you actually look at the services Waterstones offer online before making your comment? No judgement, just curious.
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Old 25th January 2012, 09:26 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

I can literally wander to my Waterstones from my house. I'll measure it in paces, next time I go... And my library is just over the road from the mall that waterstones is in. Spoiled, or what???
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Old 25th January 2012, 09:26 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

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But having found how hard it is, I wouldn't accept 30K for a 3 book deal. Considering I've spent probably 5000 hours on my WIP, it would work out at only 2 per hour for book 1 (10K)
This is an extremely good point - noting the amount of work you put into your writing.

In which case, if a traditional publisher expects you to do the marketing yourself, and you have to treat publishing as a business, then *why* would you want to go the trad route?

There's kudos involved, but not necessarily the best business decision.

This is all going to get very interesting.
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Old 25th January 2012, 09:35 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

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I can literally wander to my Waterstones from my house. I'll measure it in paces, next time I go... And my library is just over the road from the mall that waterstones is in. Spoiled, or what???
Very spoiled. My local bookshop got turned into a hairdresser's. Now we have no bookshop.
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Old 25th January 2012, 09:35 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

The thing is, and this is what the old farts like me and others here think. Can I say old fart? by the way. Oh well already have. Swallows nervously!

Unlike us, the modern generation, probably without exception, wouldn't dream of walking down to a bookshop. They just get on their Ipod and download. They do it with music, films etc etc.

Amazon know this and are driving the eBook cart at the moment and I'm sure they are aware of the downsides and will bring in checks and balances.

I'm sorely tempted.
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Old 25th January 2012, 10:04 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

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The thing is, and this is what the old farts like me and others here think. Can I say old fart? by the way. Oh well already have. Swallows nervously!

Unlike us, the modern generation, probably without exception, wouldn't dream of walking down to a bookshop. They just get on their Ipod and download. They do it with music, films etc etc.

Amazon know this and are driving the eBook cart at the moment and I'm sure they are aware of the downsides and will bring in checks and balances.

I'm sorely tempted.
I used to drag my kids in while I spent ages browsing, and one caught the bug (he's now 28) and will spend longer than I want to, now!

You can say old fart, apparently - but the word has been in common usage for millenia - I'm doing a creative essay for my MA entitled: 'The funniest fart I ever did', and you'd be amazed how many 'highbrow' literary types from Greek tragedies to Shakespeare through to James Joyce used it...
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Old 25th January 2012, 10:06 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

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You can say old fart, apparently - but the word has been in common usage for millenia - I'm doing a creative essay for my MA entitled: 'The funniest fart I ever did', and you'd be amazed how many 'highbrow' literary types from Greek tragedies to Shakespeare through to James Joyce used it...
Haha. I was thinking of you when i said it!!
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Old 25th January 2012, 10:09 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

Some people seem to be missing a few salient points. Yes, if you self-publish on, for example, Kindle, you could potentially make more money than being published by a proper paperback publisher. But you're going to have to market and promote yourself and your book - and the cost of that comes out of your pocket. Also, people under-price their books on Kindle, which distorts things. $3.99 for a 300-page ebook versus $5.99 for the paperback? Not to mention the ease of purchase... And being on Kindle is effectively locking you into Amazon's platform. Currently, they offer 70% royalties, but what's to stop them dropping that to 5% once they've got the market sewn up?

All of which is partly academic, because the single biggest problem with self-publishing is that there is a huge amount of self-published stuff available - and it's increasing enormously each year - and the vast majority of it is unreadable rubbish. If your ebook is good, how do you persuade readers that? How do you stand out from the crowd? How do you avoid getting lumped in with the Staneks and other semi-literate scribblers? At least when a book is published by one of the major imprints, you know it's been properly edited and must be good for them to have spent all the money on in the first place.
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Old 25th January 2012, 10:18 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

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Some people seem to be missing a few salient points. Yes, if you self-publish on, for example, Kindle, you could potentially make more money than being published by a proper paperback publisher. But you're going to have to market and promote yourself and your book - and the cost of that comes out of your pocket. Also, people under-price their books on Kindle, which distorts things. $3.99 for a 300-page ebook versus $5.99 for the paperback? Not to mention the ease of purchase... And being on Kindle is effectively locking you into Amazon's platform. Currently, they offer 70% royalties, but what's to stop them dropping that to 5% once they've got the market sewn up?

All of which is partly academic, because the single biggest problem with self-publishing is that there is a huge amount of self-published stuff available - and it's increasing enormously each year - and the vast majority of it is unreadable rubbish. If your ebook is good, how do you persuade readers that? How do you stand out from the crowd? How do you avoid getting lumped in with the Staneks and other semi-literate scribblers? At least when a book is published by one of the major imprints, you know it's been properly edited and must be good for them to have spent all the money on in the first place.
I've been missing the point most of my life Ian.

You say a book must be good because it's from a "proppa," publisher. How do you account for all the books that flop, and some of the howlers that are available that make you wonder when you read them, how they got past the slush pile.

Publishing isn't by any means perfect!

I hear what your saying on SP works but I'm sure you have some unpublished stories in your closet that would do well in the self-published arena.
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Old 25th January 2012, 10:33 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

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Originally Posted by iansales View Post
Some people seem to be missing a few salient points. Yes, if you self-publish on, for example, Kindle, you could potentially make more money than being published by a proper paperback publisher. But you're going to have to market and promote yourself and your book - and the cost of that comes out of your pocket. Also, people under-price their books on Kindle, which distorts things. $3.99 for a 300-page ebook versus $5.99 for the paperback? Not to mention the ease of purchase... And being on Kindle is effectively locking you into Amazon's platform. Currently, they offer 70% royalties, but what's to stop them dropping that to 5% once they've got the market sewn up?

All of which is partly academic, because the single biggest problem with self-publishing is that there is a huge amount of self-published stuff available - and it's increasing enormously each year - and the vast majority of it is unreadable rubbish. If your ebook is good, how do you persuade readers that? How do you stand out from the crowd? How do you avoid getting lumped in with the Staneks and other semi-literate scribblers? At least when a book is published by one of the major imprints, you know it's been properly edited and must be good for them to have spent all the money on in the first place.
You are only locked into Amazon if you go KDP Select and that contract is only for three months, after that you can opt out and offer your eBook titles at other outlets including selling copies yourself from your own website.

Yes you do have to market and promote, however the cost of that to myself has been minimal (less than Aus$300) and my first two royalty checks will easily cover all expenditure that I've made so far.

I've bought and read some really bad paperback sci/fi/f that supposedly has gone through the rigours of editing/proof-reading etc. Those titles haven't been returned, but rather sit at the bottom of dust covered boxes.

So how do you ensure your eBook stands out from the dross? I don't know the magic formula, only that if you write a story that people enjoy, then you'll have them coming back for more.

All I can say is if you are sitting on manuscripts and waiting patiently for a publisher/agent then you'll likely be waiting years, it may even be a fruitless endeavour. The way I see it is that we all only have one life. If a star hasn't yet fallen in your lap then it may never will. Sometimes you have to reach for that star yourself. Carpe diem.
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Old 25th January 2012, 11:46 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

Just my 2 cents,

I've had the dream for as long as I can remember to "publish" a book. The word publish, to me, means, being able to walk into *insert favourite book store* and pick it from the shelf.

The new age that we now find ourselves in, may perhaps be destroying traditonal books - but for me, and I'm sure for millions of other peeps, books themselves hold spiecal significance. To quote Giles from buffy the vampire slayer "Books have a smell" - I want people to buy my book and read it while enjoying "the smell".

I will try to go the Traditonal route regardless of the money - I don't really care if I get paid a 1 advance or 100K, for me its about writing a story and getting it on the book shelves.

I'm sure in a few years kindle and other such platforms will have completely destroyed the book stores and library's, but for the time being their still here, and as long as they are, I'm getting my book "published"!

Peace

Jx
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Old 26th January 2012, 12:16 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

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Just my 2 cents,

I've had the dream for as long as I can remember to "publish" a book. The word publish, to me, means, being able to walk into *insert favourite book store* and pick it from the shelf.

The new age that we now find ourselves in, may perhaps be destroying traditonal books - but for me, and I'm sure for millions of other peeps, books themselves hold spiecal significance. To quote Giles from buffy the vampire slayer "Books have a smell" - I want people to buy my book and read it while enjoying "the smell".

I will try to go the Traditonal route regardless of the money - I don't really care if I get paid a 1 advance or 100K, for me its about writing a story and getting it on the book shelves.

I'm sure in a few years kindle and other such platforms will have completely destroyed the book stores and library's, but for the time being their still here, and as long as they are, I'm getting my book "published"!

Peace

Jx
I thought like that too Mr Turtle, right up to the day in early Nov last year when I was rushed to hospital and lay in emergency for 13hrs because of a suspected blood clot in my lungs. It didn't end up being a blood clot, but the incident helped me re-evaluate my life. I was no longer content to wait on other people to help me achieve my dreams. I felt I had to do it myself. Don't get me wrong, I do want to hold my books in my hands in paper form. That may still happen, there are ways and means to achieve that right now if I want to. I'm just not ready to do that yet.

p.s. I don't believe traditional books will disappear. I believe both formats can co-exist. They reckoned movie cinemas would vanish with the video tape/dvd. It never happened. People still go to movies. People will still prefer paper books.
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Old 26th January 2012, 12:29 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

There is absolutely nothing stopping a person going both routes.
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Old 26th January 2012, 12:42 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

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There is absolutely nothing stopping a person going both routes.
I totally agree. If you go Kindle, just don't choose Select and you won't be tied only to Amazon. As far as I am aware you can market your books elsewhere as well as sell through Amazon, and still approach publishers/agents. Besides it might be handy to have online sales reports to show publishers if you do get a nibble.

So it is possible to have your cake and eat it too.

Yummy!
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Old 26th January 2012, 07:21 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: Published authors and percentage income

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You say a book must be good because it's from a "proppa," publisher. How do you account for all the books that flop, and some of the howlers that are available that make you wonder when you read them, how they got past the slush pile.
Because publishers are in the business first and foremost to make money, and they don't always get it right. No one does. Not even Simon Cowell. As for those "howlers" - yes, there are some pretty appalling books published by major publishers. These days publishers have to make commercial decisions, not artistic ones, and so they'd sooner go with the barely literate ravings of a celeb instead of a well-written genre novel. Sadly, people will actually buy the celeb's book.
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