Iran

[Gary Compton]

"We're doomed," Frazer warned.

"The Iranians are outside Captain Mainwaring." Sergeant Wilson said.

"Don't panic," Jonesy yelled as they came in with their portable nuclear bombs.

"من هو المسؤول؟," the Iranian soldier asked Captain Mainwaring.

"I'm in chage," Mainwaring told him as Pike pushed himself into his face in a futile show of brazen Britishness.

"Don't tell him your name Pike." Mainwaring shouted.

The Iranian soldier smiled while Sergeant Wilson shoved a welcoming package of TNT up his ass.

Boom

We will never be defeated!!

[RJM Corbet]

Originally Posted by Moonbat

... China's % of GDP spent on it's military is still about half of the US (it's something like 2% and the US is by far the highest in the world at 4% ish)

The shirt you're wearing's probably made in China, whatever country you live in. China's taking over the world without firing a shot anyway ...

Very funny, Gary

[JimBraiden]

Originally Posted by RJM Corbet

China increased it's military budget by 10% in 2012, by 13% in 2011, and by double digits for the ten years previous. Are they so worried about someone attacking them? Who, for instance? I would be worried about China.Russia has a huge nuclear arsenal. These are serious players ...

I am sure they are serious players but you still have not explained what exactly they have the ability to do if the US and Israel launched an attack on Iran.
I grant you China has increased defecne spending but what could they actually do if such an attack occured?
And the same question applies to Russia.

[JimBraiden]

[QUOTE=Moonbat;1587423]Now they just round themselves up, wall themselves in and provoke the neighbours.


I know- it's so provacative- they keep breathing!

[mosaix]

[QUOTE=JimBraiden;1587490]

Originally Posted by Moonbat

Now they just round themselves up, wall themselves in and provoke the neighbours.


I know- it's so provacative- they keep breathing!

And stealing other people's land.

[JimBraiden]

[QUOTE=mosaix;1587492]

Originally Posted by JimBraiden

And stealing other people's land.

Whose land did they steal?

[mosaix]

Originally Posted by JimBraiden

Whose land did they steal?

Where's Palestine?

[JimBraiden]

Originally Posted by mosaix

Where's Palestine?

The area between the Jordan River and the Med is generally accepted as being Palestine- also known as the land of Israel, Southern Levant, Outremer etc.
The modern Mandate as drawn up by the League of Nations included present day Jordan as part of Palestine.

[RJM Corbet]

Israel was granted broken-up enclaves of land in Palestine, outside the city of Jerusalem which they had always shared, by the Yalta treaty after World War 2 in which Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin carved up the world in the age old system of to the victor go the spoils.

Jerusalem was shared and Jews and Arabs lived side by side quite peacefully. Jews naturally began immigrating to Israel after the events of the war and were actually content with the territories granted them by the Yalta treaty. They established their kibbutzes and made the desert grow crops.

Everything was fine until certain factions decided the Jews deserved no land at all, even the scattered enclaves which had been granted them, and decided to take it back from them. The Jews fought back, and claimed more land, in retribution for the attacks. It was then that Moshe Dyan stated that no Jew shall ever give up one inch of land taken by Israel.

Again I'm not arguing the right and wrong of it. But it is important to remember that the land originally granted Israel was basically empty land, and it was legally granted. Israel has always had the attitude of: leave us be, we'll leave you be. Israel has never pursued an active war of land aggregation. Its war was always defensive, accompanied by hot pursuit, in which the new land was taken as retribution for attempts to take back land legally granted under Yalta.

[Moonbat]

The shirt you're wearing's probably made in China

Actaully the one I'm wearing today was made in Bangladesh.

How do you justify the statement 'China is taking over the world'?
I don't see any Chinese laws being passed in Devon.

If you mean that they are becoming the biggest economic power in the world, does that mean that the US took over the world when they were (and I think still are) the bigegst economic power? Did they really 'rule' the world?

And, The international community considers the Israeli settlements in occupied territory to be illegal.

[RJM Corbet]

Originally Posted by Moonbat

Actaully the one I'm wearing today was made in Bangladesh.

How do you justify the statement 'China is taking over the world'?
I don't see any Chinese laws being passed in Devon.

If you mean that they are becoming the biggest economic power in the world, does that mean that the US took over the world when they were (and I think still are) the bigegst economic power? Did they really 'rule' the world?

And, The international community considers the Israeli settlements in occupied territory to be illegal.

Ok, what I mean by 'taking over the world' is this, that the old nations grow fat and lazy and the new nations come in with hard work, producing good but cheap stuff. 'Made in Japan' was at first a derogatory term for cheap, shoddy stuff, but not anymore? One talks about cheap labour in China, India, etc. That may be partly true, but essentially its the will to produce and get on, where many western nations no longer produce much. I believe that 70% of the UK economy is in service and money markets, not production. So I'm not speaking in a derogatory way, ok?

But at the same time, the BRICs bloc is becoming a powerful force, to compete with the west. Materials are key to a production economy. Oil is the most important material of all. Why should BRICs sit back and allow the west to gain control of all the oilfields and routes and pipelines?

Jim has asked: but what can they do?

The answer is probably quite a lot, if they decide they have to.

Moonbat, I really don't want to get embroiled in a point for point discussion of Israel. It's too emotive. Point I made was that the original territory granted Israel was granted legally, ok? Whether or not Israel decides to give back the west bank and gaza, etc history will show. There's also the question of whether that would be enough? Some people believe Israel has no right to exist as a nation.

The middle east remains a dangerous flashpoint, that's what I'm getting at, and the threat of nuclear war hasn't gone away with the end of the cold war. The US and Russia still stand-off against each other with tens of thousands of bombs. The west should tread very carefully into Iran? Or not at all?

[mosaix]

Originally Posted by JimBraiden

The area between the Jordan River and the Med is generally accepted as being Palestine- also known as the land of Israel, Southern Levant, Outremer etc.
The modern Mandate as drawn up by the League of Nations included present day Jordan as part of Palestine.

Can't see it on my map.

[svalbard]

Originally Posted by mosaix

Can't see it on my map.

Open your eyes. It is there...just north of Rohan and east of....

[mosaix]

Originally Posted by RJM Corbet

Some people believe Israel has no right to exist as a nation.

That's true, RJM and in my view wrong. But what no one seems to acknowledge, or even mention, is that some other people believe that Palestine has no right to exist as a nation - and they have got their wish.

Why all the hand-wringing and anguish for something that might happen and barely a mention for something that has happened?

[RJM Corbet]

Originally Posted by mosaix

That's true, RJM and in my view wrong. But what no one seems to acknowledge, or even mention, is that some other people believe that Palestine has no right to exist as a nation - and they have got their wish.

Why all the hand-wringing and anguish for something that might happen and barely a mention for something that has happened?

If I see a lorry with no brakes speeding towards me on the wrong side of the road, I'll try to do something to avoid the consequence?

If you're saying Israel should return the occupied territories, perhaps they should. It would involve a massive relocation of Israelis, which might be worth it to get everyone off their back, so they can get on with their own lives. But I think Israel knows it wouldn't stop there. 'Never give an inch' is their philosophy ...