A thought about Game of Thrones on TV

[Culhwch]

The episode tonight actually got me thinking about Dany. She's starting to talk about going back to Westeros, but readers of the books know that that is nowhere near happening. Viewers who haven't read the books are going to have a reasonable expectation that it will happen sooner rather than later, I feel. If it is drawn out (and it will be, if aSoS is split across two seasons) will it lose people? I get the feeling it might. Those people who got frustrated with a show like Lost that kept piling on questions without providing answers are going to start channel surfing, I figure...

[Ursa major]

Given that most viewers will, by then, have realised that the TV series is based on a long series of books, they may be more patient than with a TV show that looks completely open ended. (But no-one can tell them that the book series isn't complete....)

And it isn't as if Dany's life is lacking in incident of a most spectacular (and budget-busting) type, or that some of "Westeros" is travlleing east to meet her.


But we'll see how it pans out when it happens.

[Mesanna]

I just posted over in the TV forum. I wasn't sure which forum to use and I'll probably get confused between them!

Arya and Tywin were fantastic together. Big thumbs up.

Renly's death was so-so. It all happened so quickly, and bam, that was the end of Renly. I'd have preferred that they dragged it out a little longer maybe with some ominous music or something. And Loras's reaction to Renly's death was disappointing. This was supposed to be the absolute love of his life, but he failed to convince me of his grief. It seemed more like he was inconvenienced than utterly bereft.

I did like Jaqen H'ghar. A lot!

[Keebs411]

Originally Posted by Needle

This leads me to another question: WHERE ARE MEERA AND JOJEN??

It seems they may be replacing them with Osha. For now that is fine BUT there has been no mention of the TOJ, Howland Reed, any of those things. Can they be brought in later without mass confusion? And if so by whom?

I have been wondering that too. Its seeming more and more that they are cutting them out. But then that keeps leading me to the question of how and who will split up when they leave winterfell. Bran cant just leave w hordor, who will hunt and gather and supply food fire and such? That was all meera. Maybe they wont split them up in the show, but with out knowing where rickons story is going to go in the books im not sure they can have him stay w bran on the show and not cause story issues. We shall see.....im still thinking that maybe they will run into the reed children after they leave winterfell. Im going to check imdb and see if any one is listed/ cast for them and we just havent seen it yet?

[I, Brian]

As I've said in another thread, I'm enjoying the TV series better than the books at the moment - it's keeping everything concise while moving everything forward at a reasonable pace.

And, ironically, the constant changing between characters, which might be criticised as being too much of a soap opera, works really well for TV.

One of my problems with the books was that there was so much information, and so much moving around different areas, that it was easy to feel swamped by the about of information. And the lack of a clear focus and direction inherent in the books I found frustrating - but the redacted version on TV makes the transition through everything seem simple.

I can really see myself re-reading the books again after the TV series has finished, as now I'll be able to find it a lot easier to follow and visualise everything.

Perhaps that's just a limit of my imagination.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by Keebs411

Maybe they wont split them up in the show, but with out knowing where rickons story is going to go in the books im not sure they can have him stay w bran on the show and not cause story issues.

SPOILERS


The search for Rickon seems to be an important part of the story in the later books. Whether this is a meaningful quest, or simply a convenient way of getting a PoV in certain parts of the North to show us what's going on in those places, is hard to judge.

[Timba]

Originally Posted by Keebs411

I have been wondering that too. Its seeming more and more that they are cutting them out. But then that keeps leading me to the question of how and who will split up when they leave winterfell. Bran cant just leave w hordor, who will hunt and gather and supply food fire and such? That was all meera. Maybe they wont split them up in the show, but with out knowing where rickons story is going to go in the books im not sure they can have him stay w bran on the show and not cause story issues. We shall see.....im still thinking that maybe they will run into the reed children after they leave winterfell. Im going to check imdb and see if any one is listed/ cast for them and we just havent seen it yet?

I think the time compression the show does may be throwing off our sense of timing on this. We have had a scene with Bran "holding court" and that happened before Jojen and his sister Meera showed up. Remember that they showed up during the big feast at Winterfell. I think we have to see the other folk show up for that feast and then they will appear. I don't think it would be disruptive to time lines at all for that to pop up in the next episode or 2 but I will grant you it needs to be before Theon comes back. I cannot imagine how they would get bran to the north without those two.

[Keebs411]

I agree the time compression could be throwing us off some. I lent out my 1st and 2nd books to my friends bf so he could get into the series on both ends show and books so i forget what the big feast was for..... was it for the fostered freys? Because big and little walder are also mia ( which i dont mind or think them too important to the story they could easily be cut out or replaced on the show.)

Also the vision about the sea coming over the wall was j.reed telling bran. Bran kept trying to disect it to be untrue because he didnt want to beleive all of jojen's visions. I remeber him saying things like we are nowhere near the ocean so his dream couldnt be true not realizing the o ean sybolized the iron born coming.

And in the show they showed theon realize that if they attach the moat they prob wouldnt hold it and the natural reaction of the north to send defense he knows how they will counter act the attack and how it would leave winterfell poorly armed and defended making it easy to attack and take winterfell.
I coudlnt find them cast on imdb but i hope your are right that a dinner or somthing will bring the reeds in the next episode before theon attacks. As i stated before im ok w them cutting out the fostered freys but please please pretty please keep the reeds involved!

[firstfist]

Don't' really know that saying this is necessary in this thread, but just in case Spoilers.... I'm going to try and keep it vague, but you have been warned. Read at your own peril!

I think I may have said this on this site before, but I'll quickly mention it one more time to make sure. I'm not complaining that the show isn't mirroring the books. Just pointing it out. The show is very entertaining, and follows the story (so far) close enough to resemble it more than most other adaptations I've seen. In fact I enjoy some of the differences, as they are more surprising when I don't see them coming.

This is assuming the show will follow the book fairly true. We are now half way through the season. Theon should be in Winterfell. In order for the events to take place there that are supposed to take place they will need to move quickly. Of course they could circumvent this problem by shifting the Bran time line a bit, and have a bit of the CoK Bran stuff happen at the start of next season.

Let the audience have the big death cliffhanger at the very end of the season? I felt like I spent the better part of CoK thinking that the two of them were dead. Suppose that is why I feel that Theon should already be there. Two boys should be covered in tar and feathers and hanging from the wall in the next episode or so. Of course with all the streamlining going on it is possible that something like that will happen the instant that Theon takes the castle.

I agree about the Reeds. They haven't been cast yet, and the filming for the season is over as far as I know. Hopefully they will be cast and added for next season and didn't get the axe completely. It would work to pull some trick like having one of the boys mention them, or have Old Nan tell a frog man story, to introduce them a bit before they show up. No reason they couldn't infer they already knew each other. No reason they couldn't meet up on the road anywhere above the neck and have them convince the six of them to part ways with the princes in separate parties.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I found it odd that HBO didn't jump on the chance to have all the noble women dressed in the Qarth dresses with the exposed breast. They add all the sleazy stuff, and keep so little of the real nudity. It could have been done classy, they could have had 20 or so single exposed breasts, and it would have actually been the way it should have been. It might sound a bit gross, but I hope that the Undying female mummy thing is at least dressed that way. I would call this a major oversight in the costume department.

My biggest gripe so far? It happened in the latest episode. Jaquen killed the Tickler? WTF? What purpose could they possibly have for doing this? Are they planning to skip over the Arya and Hound bit in Storm? If they do still have them together will Polliver still be there when the Hound is mortally wounded? Will Arya be getting Needle back before that?

The Tickler and Polliver were the first people on Arya's prayer that she took out herself? Why would they change that?

Oh well. Great episode. Had me thoroughly entertained and wanting more. Especially since I now have questions about the show that I can't possibly have the answers for yet. Very refreshing as a viewer who has read the source material a few times over now.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by firstfist

The Tickler and Polliver were the first people on Arya's prayer that she took out herself? Why would they change that?

Not sure, but I think it worked well, and as GRRM is executive producer, I figure he must have thought it could make sense, too.

[Timba]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Not sure, but I think it worked well, and as GRRM is executive producer, I figure he must have thought it could make sense, too.

I agree, I think the time compression they need to do makes the whole period with Arya and the Hound wandering around open to serious shortening and having the Tickler killed this way since he was given a fair amount of camera time seems to work for a viewer who has not read the books.

[The Imp]

On a completely different note, it occurred to me today that it will make total sense for them to do AFFC and ADWD in chronological order, adn the idea of follwing the books will disappear.

[mtzGr]

Originally Posted by The Imp

On a completely different note, it occurred to me today that it will make total sense for them to do AFFC and ADWD in chronological order, adn the idea of follwing the books will disappear.

I thought that as well as I was reading through the thread, and going off what Culhwch said, I figured if there was any point where people were going to get frustrated and tired of Dany's story, it'd be during ADWD (as a good number of us were). I'm just not sure whether presenting the two books in chronological order will alleviate the problem, or aggravate it further (I think I'm leaning towards the latter).

Also, the general consensus around the web seems to be that Meera and Jojen won't be showing up this season, and might show up in season three. Obviously this is just popular opinion, but as far as I can tell there has never been any official mention of either, which really can be taken either way.

[The Imp]

Originally Posted by mtzGr

I thought that as well as I was reading through the thread, and going off what Culhwch said, I figured if there was any point where people were going to get frustrated and tired of Dany's story, it'd be during ADWD (as a good number of us were). I'm just not sure whether presenting the two books in chronological order will alleviate the problem, or aggravate it further (I think I'm leaning towards the latter).

Also, the general consensus around the web seems to be that Meera and Jojen won't be showing up this season, and might show up in season three. Obviously this is just popular opinion, but as far as I can tell there has never been any official mention of either, which really can be taken either way.

There will be ADWD spoilers below




















I think that season tow has shown us that David and Dan are willing to axe large chunks of minor plot (Arya and the boys wandering for what seems to be an eternity before they are actually captured)

The nice thing about reading the boo0ks is that you get an enormous amount of detail and story information that couldn't possibly be fit into a TV show. The nice thing about a TV show is the writers and producers are forced to go with a leaner and more concise version of the story that the book tells.

It;s win/win for readers, and the non0readers don't know what they're missing

PS While I wenjoyed aDWD and am enjoying it even more the second time around, I could have done with the endless Meereen chapters, as well as much of Tyrion's trials and tribulations, which seemed almost "Job-esque" in retrospect. The book would have been better IMO with more Bran and Arya, and less Dany and Tyrion.

[mtzGr]

Originally Posted by The Imp

I think that season tow has shown us that David and Dan are willing to axe large chunks of minor plot (Arya and the boys wandering for what seems to be an eternity before they are actually captured)

The nice thing about reading the boo0ks is that you get an enormous amount of detail and story information that couldn't possibly be fit into a TV show. The nice thing about a TV show is the writers and producers are forced to go with a leaner and more concise version of the story that the book tells.

It;s win/win for readers, and the non0readers don't know what they're missing

PS While I wenjoyed aDWD and am enjoying it even more the second time around, I could have done with the endless Meereen chapters, as well as much of Tyrion's trials and tribulations, which seemed almost "Job-esque" in retrospect. The book would have been better IMO with more Bran and Arya, and less Dany and Tyrion.

SPOILERS
I don't think it would work out the same as cutting/changing parts of Arya's story for brevity, because there is still story to be told, and in fact too much of it to be able to fit it all in (which is exactly why they are forced to cut minor plot, as you said). But in Dany's case, I'd argue there is not enough story. Basically for two seasons, Dany will be playing at being Queen and talking to people in a royal capacity, and not much else; so for seasons 5 and 6, her story is going to progress very little, if at all, generally speaking in terms of returning to Westeros. Cutting parts of her story in Mereen out, basically means she is not going to see very much screen time, which may not be a huge deal as long as the rest of the stories are engaging, but as Culhwch said, it may turn some people off.

As of right now I still think they will succeed in putting everything together, but it is something that they will probably have to consider.

A thought: They could tell the other side of the story in Mereen, focusing on the Royal Houses (not sure if this would pan out for better or worse).