DIssecting Bran of House Stark (ADWD Spoilers)

[The Imp]

Specifically, I'd like to closely examine Bran III

We know that GRRM has used various devices to inject prophecy, foreshadowing and backshadowing into the story. Dany's visions in the House of the Undying, Maggie the Frog, Quaithe, various dreams in various POVs, flashbacks, etc, have all yielded valuable information. Now we have a chapter that answers questions in real time (using the Children of the Forest and Bloodraven) as well as in non-linear time using Brans new ability to see into the present and past through the eyes of weirwoods.

“Most of him has gone into the tree,” explained the singer Meera called Leaf. “He has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men. Only a little strength remains in his flesh. He has a thousand eyes and one, but there is much to watch. One day you will know.”

“What will I know?” Bran asked the Reeds afterward, ...... “What do the trees remember?”
“The secrets of the old gods,” said Jojen Reed.

Is Bloodraven an Old God now, or perhaps THE Old God? Are there many such being that started out as men and turned into "trees"? Is bran going to replace Bloodraven?

“Never fear the darkness, Bran.” The lord’s words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. “The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong.”

This makes me slightly uneasy, as it's counterintuitive (dark is typically evil, light is good), but we don't have any reason to doubt Bloodraven, do we?

“Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger,” Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, “and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer.”
“I thought the greenseers were the wizards of the children,” Bran said. “The singers, I mean.”
“In a sense. Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers.”

Great info about greenseers. It also raises a question in my mind about Jon Snow's wolf being albino (does he have red eyes? Tjis is probaly idle speculation and not of consequence

“You saw what you wished to see. Your heart yearns for your father and your home, so that is what you saw.”
“A man must know how to look before he can hope to see,” said Lord Brynden. “Those were shadows of days past that you saw, Bran

Bran hasn't learned properly yet. Can we believe what follows next?

“Once you have mastered your gifts, you may look where you will and see what the trees have seen, be it yesterday or last year or a thousand ages past.................but in time you will see well beyond the trees themselves"

There are weirwoods all over Westeros. How many eyes will a crippled boy have? Apparently a thousand and two, or perhaps countless.

… but then somehow he was back at Winterfell again, in the godswood looking down upon his father. Lord Eddard seemed much younger this time. His hair was brown, with no hint of grey in it, his head bowed. “… let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them,” he prayed, “and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive …”

Let them grow up close as brothers. Jon and the other Stark children? And is the implication that they aren't brothers at all? Not even half brothers? What or even whom must Cat forgive. GRRM conspiculously leaves the word "me" off the end of Ned saying that.

Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn’t be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. “You be quiet, stupid,” the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. “It’s just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?” She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.

This has to be Bradon and Lyanna, or perhaps Ned and Lyanna. Old Nan was old, but still spry enough to run and tell their father.

He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her

Who is this woman? Certainly not Lyanna, as she looks nothing like Arya, or at the very least, bran doesn't recognize her as an older version of Arya/Lyanna.

Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.
“No,” said Bran, “no, don’t,” but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man’s feet drummed against the earth … but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

This is in the distant past (through the mist of centuries). A sacrifice to the Old gods (Bran tastes the blood)? Who is the white haired woman? Why was bran shown this?

There has to be more to this chapter than i'm seeing. Perhaps in relation to other parts of the story. I think Bran might have been able to influence Theon, for instance. I wish that we had one or two more bran chapters, but that probably would have meant revealing too much.

[Pilpel]

Very thorough analysis, good job and thank you!

Regarding Lord Brynden's speech about darkness. I don't think we can categorize anyone or anything at this point to being good or evil, dark or light. Every character we've met so far had its own agenda (with the exception of starks? maybe, but probably not), some characters that seemed evil turned out to be good and vise versa. It's all about perspective. My point is that the gods and different sources of power can be both good and bad.
I think this power Bran's using now probably comes from the Other those red priests keep talking about but that's just me. Maybe someone's brought this up already, but could the undead outside the cave actually be guarding it?

This chapter is very mysterious. I don't think it's possible to understand everything in it at this point. GRRM gave us just enough to keep us speculating.
Waiting until TWOW to have all this answered will be nerve racking

[TPA]

Yes! Bran will be a tree man!

A green seer like the green priests in Kevin Andersons Saga of Seven Suns series.

He could taste the blood because it seeped into the ground to the roots of the tree.

[The Imp]

Originally Posted by Pilpel

Very thorough analysis, good job and thank you!

Regarding Lord Brynden's speech about darkness. I don't think we can categorize anyone or anything at this point to being good or evil, dark or light. Every character we've met so far had its own agenda (with the exception of starks? maybe, but probably not), some characters that seemed evil turned out to be good and vise versa. It's all about perspective. My point is that the gods and different sources of power can be both good and bad.
I think this power Bran's using now probably comes from the Other those red priests keep talking about but that's just me. Maybe someone's brought this up already, but could the undead outside the cave actually be guarding it?

This chapter is very mysterious. I don't think it's possible to understand everything in it at this point. GRRM gave us just enough to keep us speculating.
Waiting until TWOW to have all this answered will be nerve racking

interesting thought about the undead outside the cave, but i think that they're a danger to those inside, not guardians. I'm in the middle of a re-read, so I may change my mind later

TPA, good point about the blood in the roots

[TPA]

The question, then, is what is Brandons roll as a tree in the overall story?

He can be a source of information, kinda like a Westerosi internet, but how will he communicate it to anyone who matters?

Maybe he could use trees to warg animals across long distances?

Maybe he develops a portable tree interface so he does not have to tie into a permanent location like the current dude?

You know, Brandon, having overcome so much, has to be an important player, so playing out his story could be interesting.

[juleska]

In addition to what Pilpel has said, I would further argue that GRRM seems to be playing with our conventional wisdom of light=good & dark=evil. As we've seen, the so-called "Lord of Light" has many detractors for evil practices (such as human sacrifice). Funny how all the good things Mel has done to help Jon in ADWD (and our expectation that she will continue to help him in TWOW) has made us forget about the many many many people she (and her ilk) have thrown onto a pyre. Let us not forget either how Selsye interprets the "lord of light", that she would sooner children starve and freeze to death than extend charity to them while allowing them to keep their own gods.

R'hollor is a bloodthirsty and heartless god as far as I can tell. If I were in GRRM's world, I would doubtless choose the Old Gods of the North as my own, if not the Many Faced God of Braavos. The Seven are vapid and useless, the Drowned God is ruthless and uncaring, R'hollor demands complete acquiesence or death.....whereas the Many Faced God is consumed with the pursuit of justice and the Old Gods are simply there, listening always, and if ever intervening then only in subtle ways. I tend to distrust those "flashy" gods.

Anyway, the point to all that is this: If GRRM is turning our traditional notions of good & evil, light & darkness on their head, then it stands to reason that Jon is the one we should be worried about.....not Bran. Although I personally think that Jon will ultimately turn Mel away from her faith.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by juleska

.....whereas the Many Faced God is consumed with the pursuit of justice....

You mean like the proposed murder of Dany, who had been nothing but a victim at the time? Does anyone think that should the Faceless Men have been hired for that job that their religious qualms would have prevented them from taking the contract?

(And I do wonder if a certain extravagantly costumed banker is all he seems and whether someone has paid for the demise of, say, Stannis. I don't wish to set off another theory, but the death of Stannis would probably help in furthering Littlefinger's plans and the Regent of the Vale may be able to afford such a hit.)

[juleska]

Originally Posted by Ursa major

You mean like the proposed murder of Dany, who had been nothing but a victim at the time? Does anyone think that should the Faceless Men have been hired for that job that their religious qualms would have prevented them from taking the contract?

(And I do wonder if a certain extravagantly costumed banker is all he seems and whether someone has paid for the demise of, say, Stannis. I don't wish to set off another theory, but the death of Stannis would probably help in furthering Littlefinger's plans and the Regent of the Vale may be able to afford such a hit.)

Which is the reason I say I'd likely prefer the Old Gods of the North. But then, I'm speaking only in terms of GRRMs world. In this one, I am not a particularly religious person. Your point is taken, but it doesn't change my primary observation here that light/dark good/evil are being somewhat turned on their head.

[The Imp]

Originally Posted by juleska

In addition to what Pilpel has said, I would further argue that GRRM seems to be playing with our conventional wisdom of light=good & dark=evil. As we've seen, the so-called "Lord of Light" has many detractors for evil practices (such as human sacrifice). Funny how all the good things Mel has done to help Jon in ADWD (and our expectation that she will continue to help him in TWOW) has made us forget about the many many many people she (and her ilk) have thrown onto a pyre. Let us not forget either how Selsye interprets the "lord of light", that she would sooner children starve and freeze to death than extend charity to them while allowing them to keep their own gods.

R'hollor is a bloodthirsty and heartless god as far as I can tell. If I were in GRRM's world, I would doubtless choose the Old Gods of the North as my own, if not the Many Faced God of Braavos. The Seven are vapid and useless, the Drowned God is ruthless and uncaring, R'hollor demands complete acquiesence or death.....whereas the Many Faced God is consumed with the pursuit of justice and the Old Gods are simply there, listening always, and if ever intervening then only in subtle ways. I tend to distrust those "flashy" gods.

Anyway, the point to all that is this: If GRRM is turning our traditional notions of good & evil, light & darkness on their head, then it stands to reason that Jon is the one we should be worried about.....not Bran. Although I personally think that Jon will ultimately turn Mel away from her faith.

Your point is a good one. I alluded to it when I talked about Bloodraven telling Bran to embrace the darkness, that it is his strength (paraphrasing). Before ADWD many of us here and on other boards though that Mel was probably pure evil and that the traditional roles oflight and dark were being reversed. it now seems clear that Melisandre's motives are "good", or at least, she wants what is good but is willing to use things that others would consider to be bad to achieve her goals. In many ways, she is much like most religious zealots in RL. Anyway, I think that there must eventually be a unification of light and dark (on all human levels) to defeat the Great Other. I don't know if GRRM practices any religion any more. He has said he used to be a practicing Cathloic is isn't anymore, but the nature of his characters and storeis has always made me think that he is very much in to the Eastern notion of Yin/Yang, as evidenced by the complex nature of almost every character. Very few have been black or white, but rather, varying shades of grey.

[MIDNIGHT]

One major quote from Bran' chapter in ADWD that is giving me some hope about Jon's fate comes after he has just saw and tried to contact his father. Leaf says to him "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death" Brynden also says to him " Nor will your sight be limited to your godswood..... but in time you will see beyond the trees themselves".
Leaf's phrase seems to indicate that Bran may have some ability to "call one back from death" and Bloodraven has indicated that Bran will be able see events near and far without a tree. Perhaps Bran will witness Jon's death and "call" him back before before he truly is gone ?

[The Imp]

Originally Posted by MIDNIGHT

One major quote from Bran' chapter in ADWD that is giving me some hope about Jon's fate comes after he has just saw and tried to contact his father. Leaf says to him "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death" Brynden also says to him " Nor will your sight be limited to your godswood..... but in time you will see beyond the trees themselves".
Leaf's phrase seems to indicate that Bran may have some ability to "call one back from death" and Bloodraven has indicated that Bran will be able see events near and far without a tree. Perhaps Bran will witness Jon's death and "call" him back before before he truly is gone ?

I had read that as don't try to call him back from death because you can't, but the passage you quoted is certainly ambiguous enough so that almost anything is possible. Bran will certainly become an extremely powerful figure, and perhaps the focal point of the end game.

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

I think Bran is actually going to be a tool of the Other and appear to be evil, but it will probably end up that R'hllor had everyone deceived all along. That is, Melisandre did.

[The Imp]

I think it's of great importance that Bran seems capable of speaking to those praying or possibly just near WW trees. Theon hearing a voice whispering his name when he was in the WF GW proves this.

[Eversummer]

Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn’t be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. “You be quiet, stupid,” the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. “It’s just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?” She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.

something tells me that it was not Brandon or Ned playing with Lyanna. Benjen's name always bugging me.

He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her

Stupid as I am, my drunken mind tells me its Lysa contemplating revenge as her son by Littlefinger was aborted. This is pure nonsense...the Arryns were descended from the Andals and that they have burned and cut down weirwood trees especially in the Vale...right?

In the next hour, I'd jump headfirst off the cliff near our house....pardon me for my utter idiocy.

[The Imp]

Originally Posted by Eversummer

something tells me that it was not Brandon or Ned playing with Lyanna. Benjen's name always bugging me.




Stupid as I am, my drunken mind tells me its Lysa contemplating revenge as her son by Littlefinger was aborted. This is pure nonsense...the Arryns were descended from the Andals and that they have burned and cut down weirwood trees especially in the Vale...right?

In the next hour, I'd jump headfirst off the cliff near our house....pardon me for my utter idiocy.

It's hard to rule anything out. It's certainly not clear who the girl is.

I came across the "Jon dream" at the end of aCoK. Very interesting.

Part of it

When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.
There were five of them when there should have been six, and they
were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of
emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and
cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there
somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his
haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.
Ion?
The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong
too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his
brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the
trees, but there was nothing, only . . .A weirwood.
It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from
a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender
compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling,
yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they
reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until
he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they
were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face.
Had his brother always had three eyes?
Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow
He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind
that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth
and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something
terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back,
his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.
Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you
can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this.

I wonder if Sansa will end up with Summer?

Brban is certainly going to be the directing force, and I think he will reunite the wolves/children.