Sansa of House Stark (ADWD spoiler)

[Mesanna]

Originally Posted by Ursa major

I was merely trying to point out that by the end of the series, the identity of the occupant of the Iron Throne, if there is one, may not be that important (or could even be irrelevant). I'm not saying this is my prediction, only that it's possible.

Yeah, assuming The Others invade and there's an almighty battle with the dragons, which seems to be the generally accepted belief, who can what sort of state the world will be in at the end of it. As Ursa says, there may not be an Iron Throne to claim. Kings Landing might be nuked. And, to take that further, who can say that there won't be another "Doom of Valyria", except it could be the "Doom of Westeros" and the land itself may not be in the same shape at the end of the story as it was at the start. Anything is possible!

[Devil's Advocate]

Originally Posted by devilsgrin

theres a significant difference between being a Leader and wielding power. Littlefinger and the Queen of Thorns are the perfect examples of those who wield power, but who, themselves, are not leaders. Sansa is shaping up to be exactly that type of player.

I agree with the former. But the latter is what I doubt. Littlefinger, Queen of Thorns, and even Varys, wield power without being leaders.

But they're clever, and we have no evidence to suggest Sansa is, too. Sure, Petyr can train her in some of his cunning ways, but he can't train her to become smarter. He can only train her to use what is inside her to better effect.

All in all, I would be very disappointed with a plot that has her suddenly transforming into a power player.

Originally Posted by Ursa major

I'm not sure that the series is defined by the game of thrones,

Although the fact that they name the entire TV series after it (rather than the proper series name) is suspicious...

[Ursa major]

One always needs an eye-catching main title. That means not using "A Song of Ice and Fire", which is a good deal more vague (though all-encompassing) than (A) Game of Thrones, which suggests intrigue with the possibility of outright war.

On my paperback of A Game of Thrones, "A Song of Ice and Fire" does not appear on the front cover, but on the back. The same is true of A Clash of Kings and both volumes of A Storms of Swords. It doesn't appear at all on my paperback of A Feast for Crows. It reappears on the back of my (hardback) A Dance with Dragons.

In spite of all this, the series is A Song of Ice and Fire, and we should not forget that.

[The Imp]

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

But they're clever, and we have no evidence to suggest Sansa is, too. Sure, Petyr can train her in some of his cunning ways, but he can't train her to become smarter. He can only train her to use what is inside her to better effect.

Sansa was not trained to be smart, she was trained to be a Lady. She is her mother's daughter, and IMO, Cat's POVs showed that she was as smart as any man when it came to understanding politics. Think nature rather than nurture.

All in all, I would be very disappointed with a plot that has her suddenly transforming into a power player.

Children gow up. Dany was literally a child when she was given to Drogo. Was her transformation so unreasonable?

Although the fact that they name the entire TV series after it (rather than the proper series name) is suspicious...

I think the idea was to de-emphasize the fantasy aspect for new viewers. It's also true that much of the series will focus on the "game of thrones" in that there will be a power struggle in the 7 Kingdoms that will last at least through TWOW, but I think they chose the name to draw in a larger and more diverse audience

[Ursa major]

To be fair to Sansa, she worked out Ser Lyn Corbray's rôle in Littlefinger's plan to remain in power in the Vale.

[devilsgrin]

I agree with the former. But the latter is what I doubt. Littlefinger, Queen of Thorns, and even Varys, wield power without being leaders.

But they're clever, and we have no evidence to suggest Sansa is, too. Sure, Petyr can train her in some of his cunning ways, but he can't train her to become smarter. He can only train her to use what is inside her to better effect.

All in all, I would be very disappointed with a plot that has her suddenly transforming into a power player.

Your forgetting, DsA, that Sansa is 13 by the last time we see her. She's been physically and emotionally abused, in a situation where she realised INSTANTLY she had no power to resist. Thats hardly a fair age or position to judge her intelligence or potential abilities at.
She's clearly learned to adapt in a way that suggests her mind is at least capable of intelligence. I also think your basing your opinion of her by comparing her to Arya. Which is an entirely unfair comparison, considering the differences in their basic personalities.
The Imp was correct above, when mentioning that Sansa wasn't raised to have a brain, she was raised to be a high lord's lady. And yet, also mentioned, was Catelyn. Like her or not, she was and incredibly smart woman, with a grasp of the complexities of the "Game" that far surpassed Ned's, and even Cercei's.
The Nature of all the Stark children is rooted in their upbringing and their intelligence (which we've seen All possess - well except perhaps Rickon, who may end up something of a wildchild).

Her transformation into a "power player" isn't going to be a sudden thing. Its going to be an ongoing theme of her POV due to what we've seen of "Allayne Stone's" POVs, and we've already seen her developing her skills - she's learned well enough to keep on Petyr's good side, by playing up her resemblance to her mother. She's well aware of the power her appearance has over him... its not going to debilitate Petyr completely, but he has little defence against it none-the-less.

[krishla]

Somewhere along the line, Sansa will be Littlefinger's undoing.