32.08: Let's Kill Hitler

[The Bloated One]

Yes, I was wondering how they so easily forgot about one of the world's worst tyrants! Not good scripting on that score.

TBO

[TheEndIsNigh]

OK I've calmed down now so here are few other observations.

1. The people that imprison Pond R are obviously not the Lilliputians. There stated aim was to get a person at the very end of their lives and 'Give them Hell'. Presumably this gives us one thing about life in the 5th millenium. They will no longer believe in a deity, since they are adopting that role for themselves. Pond R seems to enjoy a quite peasant lifestyle in her 'prison'. She certainly doesn't have the appearance of someone suffering from every nerve in her body being sered by the fires of hell.

But wait... Their stated aim was to wait until the end of a bad boys life. So what were they doing in Berlin at that time given: Hitler still had a few years to go.

Plus what gave them the right to punish Pond R given she was certainly nowhere near her final breath.

As for the Lilliputians. What about Who himself - A sell confessed genocidal maniac; who has wiped out at least two entire species (that I can remember, I'm sure there are more). Lets be honest - he ain't no saint. A good man he isn't. Many have died at his hand either directly or by indifference. Those poor Daleks for one.

I can't remember these do gooders stepping into the frame with all those other, series based, baddies that we have been keeping tabs on. Where is Davros in the scheme of things. Maybe the Lilliputians know that to go after the galactic baddies would be asking for trouble. Could you imagine a Dalek v Lilliputian episode: I think not.

Then we have the climbing up personally look through the eye. No eye manipulation motors, no 'visible' means of detecting an image. No dark +spaces so the eyes don't light up. No earthquake when the eye blinks (no eye movement at all actually). Why, why why would a race of beings capable of time travel, miniaturisation and teleportation need to get up close.

Why the need for the antibodies? What was their useful function. It certainly wasn't to patrol the corridors sweeping up. They only came to life when an external threat materialised. Something that only happened when the Numskulls caused it.

Not to mention that the way they treated prisoners put them in direct contravention of their own stated aims. 'Leave him to the antibodies' hardly counts as humane treatment. Worse those little children that watch this episode will learn the way to deal with people like the poor sod that got antibodied to death, is to dispose of them in some gruesome way. What's that teaching the nine and ten year olds that watch.

As for the fish fingers custard, the apparent miraculous recovery (only to be dashed later) and the tux: Why????? What did the Tux add to the storyline.

If I find myself dying of an incurable poison with only 30 minutes to live and the world to save (not to mention Pond in the room) and I reach for a evening tie and tails - shoot me now!!!!

To me these are all fatal flaws. The scriptwriters are relying on the reputation of the Who franchise rather than embellishing and maintaining its credibility. I suspect whoever is in charge knows this can't go on as a series for much longer and is sucking the remaining profit from the networks. If they kill it off in the process 'Who Cares'. They will have retired.

Sadly this could all be corrected by spending a few more dollars on the script/plot and leaving the fancy graphics effects out. It's like the star wars films. Why do it right when you can have a bunch of animators stick in a few nice CGI sequences. Why have expensive (even by Who standards) 'sets' when we can use the director generals office and replace a window or two.

This episode was badly thought, out badly constructed and badly executed.

[Perpetual Man]

Some good solid points TEiN, I'm not going to argue whether the episode (show as a whole) is good or bad, just point out what has been said by the man in charge, Mr. Moffat, which probably shows where the good old Beeb is coming from.

They don't care about the bad reviews, because for every bad one there are something like three good ones, but most importantly it comes down to viewing figures and Doctor Who, like it or loathe it gets an average of ten million each episode, not including re-runs, making it the most successful drama on television outside of the soaps.

They sell it to countries all over the world, who seem quite happy to keep buying it, and at last, after near fifty years of trying it is making headway in the US - the reaction to Matt Smith at comic con was unbelievable apparently.

I figure that as long as it is doing things like that the Beeb just feel that things are working and let it go, they probably don't care about the stories as long as people are watching.

The only way it's going to get cancelled is if they can't get the bums on the seats or sell it abroad, and that is not happening yet.

Although I enjoy the show I freely admit it is flawed, but not to the extent that it could be.

Something else of course is merchandise - have you considered how much DW makes for the BBC?

At Comic Con, the Doctor Who room was allegedly filled with nearly 30,000 fans, half of which had sonic screwdrivers waving in the air. Each screwdriver costs (UK figures) £15, that's a room of £225,000, I guess they don't cost that much to make, so let's say a profit of 50% that's at one convention alone £112,500 worth of profit, and that does not include sales of screwdrivers worldwide, which does not include all the other merchandise sold, from toys, to books, to DVD's.

I shudder to think just how much revenue that Doctor Who makes for the BBC, and can't think of another UK show that does the same, I reckon it's a lot more than it costs to produce.

As long as it's producing figures and income like that I don't think the BBC are going to let go of their cash cow, and unfortunately turning out simple episodes like this, filled with different gadgets (sonic walking stick, Miniature ship sets, new characters and clothes to be made into action figures, little antibody robots) they're going to keep doing them.

Love it or loathe it, that's the future.

[JunkMonkey]

It has always been thus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvmZ9SPcTzU

[JunkMonkey]

It has always been thus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvmZ9SPcTzU

[HoopyFrood]

Originally Posted by TheEndIsNigh

But wait... Their stated aim was to wait until the end of a bad boys life. So what were they doing in Berlin at that time given: Hitler still had a few years to go.

The numskulls said themselves in the episode that they'd turned up too early, once they saw they were in 1938. They'd made a mistake.

Perhaps it's easy to do in time travel, and the Doctor turning up in the wrong times and places constantly isn't just his innate Doctorism, but a hazard of skipping around in time.

[JunkMonkey]

My computer has the hiccups.

[TheDustyZebra]

Watching again (my cable company has BBCA after all, yay!) and just noticed something that didn't register the first two times through.

The Doctor died (at the beginning of the season) at Lake Silencio, Utah. There is no Lake Silencio, Utah, in real life. Silence, anyone?

[TheEndIsNigh]

Der der da da der der da da

(to the tune of the twilight zone)

[Perpetual Man]

Just as a curiosity, the big bad as it were has been referred to throughout as The Silence, and when the scary face creatures turned up at the start of the series we just assumed that they were The Silence.

But in Perp Jr.s Doctor Who magazine (he is far too young for it really, but he loves the free gifts) they refer to them as The Silents...

[Mary Hoffman]

Just a word about the "Have the critics forgotten this is a show for kids?" argument.

I write for kids - have been published since 1975 - titles for all ages from picturebooks to crossover teen fiction, and it has never crossed my mind that this means I can eschew internal logic, convincing characterisation and motivation, appropriate settings etc etc.

You name it - any aspect of writing - and children deserve the best examples of it writers can devise and provide, even in a short, funny, exciting story.

It is absolutely not an excuse for shoddy plotting, cheap gags and gaping great plot holes!

[Perpetual Man]

Originally Posted by Mary Hoffman

Just a word about the "Have the critics forgotten this is a show for kids?" argument.

I write for kids - have been published since 1975 - titles for all ages from picturebooks to crossover teen fiction, and it has never crossed my mind that this means I can eschew internal logic, convincing characterisation and motivation, appropriate settings etc etc.

You name it - any aspect of writing - and children deserve the best examples of it writers can devise and provide, even in a short, funny, exciting story.

It is absolutely not an excuse for shoddy plotting, cheap gags and gaping great plot holes!

I agree to a point, and what I am about to say I am firmly against and think there should be an overall cohesiveness, but it does not seem to be the case when it comes to the film/TV medium.

There is the underlying element of the wow factor.

The feel that they get more kids watching the screen and going "Wow! Little men in a human shaped craft!" is more important than the how and why.

Unfortunately half the viewers (if not more) won't read books, do not care about the medium, other than to grab 45 minutes of glory, and if they are of a certain age, go to school after the weekend and be able to gawp and enthuse about the spectacle.

It's not the way I would like it. But it is.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Mary Hoffman

It is absolutely not an excuse for shoddy plotting, cheap gags and gaping great plot holes!

I'd agree totally with that, which was why I said I used my own kids as a barometer now. Only, they are probably still way too old to be the target audience. Not that even very young kids can't also be very discerning and spot things that just don't quite ring true. If someone, even a small child, has to question something, then you no longer have that 'suspense of disbelief' and the audience are no longer with you. That is poor writing.

While we like these long story arcs and the complex timey-wimey stuff, it can only go way over a young child's head. Having said that, I never understood much of 'Dr. Who' as a very young child, but I understood enough to know the good and bad guys, and that the Doctor was one of the 'good guys', and I expect that is still so. I guess only someone like Perp Jr. really knows that.

The BBC website used to actually have reviews written from the views of young kids. They have stopped doing that. One can only wonder why?

[Perpetual Man]

Originally Posted by Dave

I guess only someone like Perp Jr. really knows that.

That would probably be the case Dave, unfortunately though I cannot trust Perp. Jr. s reaction, as he has reached that delicate age where it scares the willies out of him and we have had to ban him from watching it for a few years.

Now, for us, its Peppa Pig all the way...

[JunkMonkey]

Originally Posted by Perpetual Man

Unfortunately half the viewers (if not more) won't read books

But, like the Harry Potter effect of a few years ago, I'm sure many kids (particularly boys) will be picking up spin-off books and turning into readers. There are enough of Doctor Who books out there to stock a small library and they can't all be being bought by nostalgic, middle-aged fanboys.