Tour de France 2011

[Foxbat]

Surely I can't be the only person here watching this on TV?
These guys are just incredible (and many of the fans lining the roadside are complete lunatics).

It's been a pretty open tour so far and I've just watched the Manx Missile retain his green jersey with another win....Go Cav!!! Looking good for Paris.

My money is still on one of the Schleck brothers for the overall win but...really...it could go any way and, frankly, I wouldn't be upset to see Voeckler keeping the yellow. He's well deserving of it so far.

[Silvio dante]

I'm dipping in and out of it Foxbat. I try and get the highlights online each evening.

It really is a spectacular exhibition of human courage and endurance. I only hope we've seen the back of the doping scandals but I'll not hold my breath

Voeckler has surprised everyone holding onto the Yellow through the Pyrennees. Which Schleck brother will get precedence in the team I wonder or are they allowed to race eaxchother?

[Foxbat]

I saw an interview with Andy Schleck and he said that if his brother wins, it will feel as good as if he won himself. Still, when the chips are down, I expect brotherly love to go right out the window. Frank seemed the stronger at first but, recently, Andy seems to have the upper hand. It's a difficult choice for the team because a fight between the two might let somebody like Contador slip in for the win.

[Silvio dante]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

I saw an interview with Andy Schleck and he said that if his brother wins, it will feel as good as if he won himself. Still, when the chips are down, I expect brotherly love to go right out the window. Frank seemed the stronger at first but, recently, Andy seems to have the upper hand. It's a difficult choice for the team because a fight between the two might let somebody like Contador slip in for the win.

We may see a Williams sisters scenario with them both dominating cycling for the next 5-6 years!

Contador doesn't seem to have the power this year. Hopefully doping restrictions are levelling the playing field...

[Brown Rat]

I, too, am a fan of the Schleck brothers.

Lots of injuries and upsetting accidents on the Tour this year.

[HareBrain]

I'm betting on Cadel Evans this year. I'd rather Andy Schleck won to make up for last year, but Evans is the better TTer (from memory), and I've seen no sign yet that the others are likely to take anything off him in the Alps. I can't see Contador doing much.

A real shame Wiggins crashed out, though it's good to see others in the Sky team making an impact.

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by Silvio dante

Contador doesn't seem to have the power this year. Hopefully doping restrictions are levelling the playing field...

He had an injured knee from a crash in an earlier stage. Whether this is still affecting him, I'm not sure.

Cadel Evans is always there ....a real threat to his rivals and must be in with a good chance. It's good for us, the viewers, to have a healthy pack of contenders

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

It's good for us, the viewers, to have a healthy pack of contenders

Though it's a bit dull when they all finish together at the end of a tough mountain stage like Saturday's.

[Silvio dante]

Originally Posted by HareBrain

Though it's a bit dull when they all finish together at the end of a tough mountain stage like Saturday's.

But I think/hope this shows a levelling of the playing field where everyone in clean, or as clean as possible... Not like Armstrong and others in the past full to his gills on dope blitzing the field behind them...

[HareBrain]

Yes, it was pretty depressing to have a string of apparently heroic mountain breakaways revealed to be the result of doping. It's made me so cynical I've even started to wonder about Voekler.

But whether or not Armstrong doped, I thought he had a genetic advantage in not making as much lactic acid, or something?

(Though anyone who can ride 100+ miles a day for three weeks clearly has a genetic advantage over most of us.)

[Foxbat]

Watched the highlights last night and changes are afoot. Contador gained a large amount of time on Schleck and could be starting his real offensive.

[Boneman]

Originally Posted by Silvio dante

But I think/hope this shows a levelling of the playing field where everyone in clean, or as clean as possible... Not like Armstrong and others in the past full to his gills on dope blitzing the field behind them...

And your evidence is...?

Armstrong remains the most tested rider of all time - after every stage, on every rest day, and randomly throughout the year (they turned up at his house when his wife was in labour, and insisted on testing him before he could take her to the hospital). So if he'd been 'full to his gills' as you put it, don't you think it would have been detected? If you're going to repeat tired innuendo and rumour (which is libellous), at least have the grace to come up with better reasons for it. Expect a call from his lawyers any day now... And do bear in mind that the Chrons is legally liable for comments you make here, as well as you.

Or are you saying that if someone gets way ahead in the mountain stages, they must be on drugs? Contador might have something to say about that... Mark Cavendish has been described at the fastest sprinter in the world, and his body physiology is apparently superior to others in the 'fast-twitch' fibres in his muscles, but nobody is suggesting he's ever taken drugs. Lance Armstrong's lung capacity was over 8 litres, and with a heart rate of 190bpm he would pump over 50 litres of blood per minute. And as Harebrain said, his ability to clear lactic acid was incredibly high, (178) and guess what? There ain't a drug that helps you clear lactate... In his case - as with Cavendish - he had a genetic advantage. Why is it so difficult to accept that? Because people will, like you, continue to make unsubstantiated allegations, and Armstrong will continue to sue and win the cases. Floyd landis, a former teammate, said in 2010 that Armstrong tested positive for EPO during the 2002 Tour of Switzerland. Kinda hard to do, since Armstrong didn't actually take part in it that year...

[Silvio dante]

Funny how distinguisehed journalists like Paul kimmage and David Walsh have written extensively on Armstrong doping and not once has he successfully sued them. has he even tried? I think not. You should google their work. it's very impressive. kimmage in particular was a Tour cyclist himself and saw the widespread doping in the mid-late 1980's and wrote about it in his autobigraphy before becomming a fulltime journalist.

Then you have rider after rider who were former teamates of Armstrong who have admitted to him being part of the team doping process.

Finally there are six actual samples from Armstrong that has tested positive for EPO in 1999 but because there was no approved test for that particular drug at the time he got away with it.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycli...-details_x.htm

The guy is a complete fraud...

[Boneman]

aah... distinguished journalists...

David Walsh - LA Confidentiel - only printed in France. Don't you find that curious? Or is that the laws on defamation are so much different there, compared to the rest of the world? Why wasn't it printed in America, England, Canada? And that when some of it was printed in The Sunday Times (see what the distinguished journalists there have been getting up to recently...) Armstrong successfully sued and won an apology and an out-of-court settlement. What a shame the book only contained allegations (which were withdrawn later by Swart and Andreu in American court, when they admitted they'd never seen Armstrong take drugs), and not a shred of evidence or proof...

Paul Kimmage - another Sunday Times reporter (owned by News International - see what the distinguished journalists there have been up to recently), who referred to Armstrong as a 'cancer in the sport', and that the 'cancer's returned' when Armstrong returned to the tour. That's distinguished Journalism??? Ask a cancer sufferer... It has been said that even if the last court in the land cleared Armstrong of any drugs involvement, Kimmage would still be pointing the finger. That's distinguished journalism? So Floyd Landis (broke, needing money, and a proven liar on so many occasions (admitted by him) gives Kimmage more allegations, and Kimmage does nothing to follow them up, just says "I believe him." That's distinguished journalism? Read the transcript of the 7 hour interview between Kimmage and Landis, and see how many times Kimmage puts words into Landis' mouth?

Distinguished journalists? I don't think so... they just want a story, not the truth, because that won't sell newspapers...

The EPO samples carried out by the world anti doping agency - WADA: well, one side said:

tests on urine samples were conducted improperly and fell so short of scientific standards that it was "completely irresponsible" to suggest they "constitute evidence of anything.

(Vrijman was head of the Dutch anti-doping agency for ten years, so he should know what he was talking about, and didn't have an axe to grind.)

and the other side said:

The Vrijman report is so lacking in professionalism and objectivity that it borders on farcical.

To quote Mandy Rice-Davies "Well they would say that, wouldn't they?" The IOC Ethics Commission subsequently censured Dick Pound, the President of WADA and a member of the IOC, for his statements in the media that suggested wrongdoing by Armstrong, suggesting that perhaps Vrijman did know his stuff.

So as always, we have to come down to what we believe. However, I don't believe journalists, even distinguished ones, can be trusted to tell the truth, any more than self-confessed liars can be relied on, on the basis of the 'belief' of the man interviewing him. That's hardly an objective view is it?

[HareBrain]

Armstrong made himself unpopular by being too successful and too American. But he clearly had the drive and (perhaps not particularly well-rounded) personality that winners are made of, plus a lot of genetic advantage, a great team structure, and amazing bike-handling skills that owed nothing to banned substances. I don't know 100% whether he doped or not, but I don't find his performance suspicious in the light of those facts.

Just seen film of someone driving down the last descent of today's stage. Suddenly, Andy Schleck's moaning after yesterday seems like it might almost be justified. Should be knuckle-whitening stuff.