David Weber/Eric Flint Torch of Freedom

[Vertigo]

Help! Somebody please tell me this gets better!

I normally enjoy most of Weber's HH books and though this is a co-authored book with Eric Flint and not in the main HH series, I still did not expect to be this disappointed. I also normally enjoy Weber's convoluted politics, though it can sometimes get too much.

However in this book, I am now one thrid of the way through and that's 200 pages (a full novel's worth for some) and out of 19 chapters all bar 4 have been pure info dumping, mostly on politics, with almost no action of any sort at all. The info dumping has almost all taken place in conversations across office desks or dinner tables. To make matters worse a very large part of that is all stuff I already know from other books. I know authors of series need to put in some catch up stuff but... 200 pages of it?

So someone please tell me this book is worth persisting with and there's better (much better) to come before I just give up (I hate doing that).

[Behni]

I can't offer any hope since I haven't read it But, I have the first HH book on my iTouch for listening to in the car and I just don't get the attraction. It got really great reviews on Audible. I'm trying to get through it - and I like the idea (plus Nimitz is cool) but I have just started listening to Starswarm instead and hoping to get back to Basilisk Station. The long drawn out explanations of planetary politics and how ships work almost put me to sleep and that is kind of the opposite reaction I'm hoping for when driving

[Vertigo]

Behni, you'll find there is quite a bit of that in his HH books though they definitely get better as you get into them. Although that said, in his later books he does seem to get worse with it again. Now some people love that techie detail (I'm mostly not adverse to it myself) but other hate it. The latter group often seem to just skip over those details, however I can see that being a lot harder to do on a audio book and it's probably not wise to skip the political stuff as that tends to be an important foundation for much of the story. Maybe you should try for reading them rather than audiobook-ing them?

[Jade44]

I working my way through the book now. As usual it answers a few questions in some of the other books, but it does take a very long time to get started. I'm 400 pages into it and Cachat and Zilwicki haven't even left on their mission yet. I think I prefer Weber's earlier books when he wasn't into such convoluted plots and there was a little more action. I've actually been finding his last few book a bit of a chore to read except for the last 200 pages when the action really picks up.

[Vertigo]

That seems to be about my the same as my experience, Jade. I am now about half way through and it is beginning to have some action (in that people are at least moving about, not just sat talking across desks) but it has been a hard slog to get here. It's hard to know whether this is down to co-authoring with Eric Flint or, more likely I'm afraid, that Weber has become a big enough seller that he has much more control over the editing of his books and is indulging himself. It wouldn't be the first time that a bestselling author has done this (Heinlein springs to mind).

[Jade44]

Originally Posted by Vertigo

That seems to be about my the same as my experience, Jade. I am now about half way through and it is beginning to have some action (in that people are at least moving about, not just sat talking across desks) but it has been a hard slog to get here. It's hard to know whether this is down to co-authoring with Eric Flint or, more likely I'm afraid, that Weber has become a big enough seller that he has much more control over the editing of his books and is indulging himself. It wouldn't be the first time that a bestselling author has done this (Heinlein springs to mind).

Can't say that I remember much in the way of that sort of writing from Heinlein, but I read all of his books decades ago. The worst author I have read recently for that sort of thing was Terry Goodkind. I actually began to skim read the last of his Sword of Truth series, sometimes covering an entire chapter in less than a minute.

[Moggle]

Something similiar happened when Weber teamed up Flint for 1632. The first book was entertaining, but the sequels were constant info dumping and virtually no action at all.

P.S. I'll be reading Ashes of Victory very soon

[Vertigo]

Originally Posted by Jade44

Can't say that I remember much in the way of that sort of writing from Heinlein, but I read all of his books decades ago. The worst author I have read recently for that sort of thing was Terry Goodkind. I actually began to skim read the last of his Sword of Truth series, sometimes covering an entire chapter in less than a minute.

Not exactly the same; the parallel was the self indulgence, which I think Heinlein was very guilty of in his latter books with quite a lot of political proselytizing.

Originally Posted by Moggle

Something similiar happened when Weber teamed up Flint for 1632. The first book was entertaining, but the sequels were constant info dumping and virtually no action at all.

P.S. I'll be reading Ashes of Victory very soon

Interesting Moggle, not read them myself (not too into alternative history books) but maybe it's Flint's influence, although there is no doubt that Weber does have a tendency towards info dumping.

Hope you enjoy AOV, I liked it well enough but it wasn't one of my favourite HH books, I prefered the next one after it; War of Honor.

TOF is getting a bit better now, but I have to say that first third to half of the book has to be one of the heaviest bits of reading that I have endured in a long time. It was more like reading a political history book...

[Moggle]

Oh for Pete's sake, the only copy of AOV from the library is missing the first 114 pages! Gotta return this.

[Jade44]

Originally Posted by Vertigo

Not exactly the same; the parallel was the self indulgence, which I think Heinlein was very guilty of in his latter books with quite a lot of political proselytizing.

As I said, it has been a long time since I read any Heinlein, so I can't say I remember a great deal about it. If I remember correctly the last book of his that I read was Stranger in a Strange Land which I read sometime in the mid 60s.

Goodkind, of course I have read more recently and I expect I won't read anything else he has to offer. I got awfully tired of his neo-fascist preaching by the time the series had its final rather disappointing ending.

With Weber I will probably soldier on and see where Mission of Honor takes the series.

[Vertigo]

Originally Posted by Moggle

Oh for Pete's sake, the only copy of AOV from the library is missing the first 114 pages! Gotta return this.

You can download the whole book free here:

http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/0...tory/index.htm

Even if you don't like eBooks and don't have an eReader you can download it in html format and read the first 114 pages on your computer using a normal web browser. Incidentally this is from a site that hosts many free Baen books with Baen PUblishing's permission.

Originally Posted by Jade44

As I said, it has been a long time since I read any Heinlein, so I can't say I remember a great deal about it. If I remember correctly the last book of his that I read was Stranger in a Strange Land which I read sometime in the mid 60s.

Goodkind, of course I have read more recently and I expect I won't read anything else he has to offer. I got awfully tired of his neo-fascist preaching by the time the series had its final rather disappointing ending.

With Weber I will probably soldier on and see where Mission of Honor takes the series.

I enjoyed Mission of Honor and without putting in any spoilers my feelings could be summed up as "Well finally!".

[Vertigo]

Well I finished Torch of Freedom and to be fair the latter two thirds of the book were very much better and much more like I would expect a Weber book to be. But I still consider that first third (fully 200 hundred pages) to have been inexcusable writing and terminally boring. Never thought I'd say that about a Weber book but there you go.

[Jade44]

Originally Posted by Vertigo

Well I finished Torch of Freedom and to be fair the latter two thirds of the book were very much better and much more like I would expect a Weber book to be. But I still consider that first third (fully 200 hundred pages) to have been inexcusable writing and terminally boring. Never thought I'd say that about a Weber book but there you go.

Agreed. The book could easily have been shortened by about 300 pages. I hate skim reading a book like that, but Weber's extended conversations between characters are becoming entirely too predictable.

I've started reading Elizabeth Moon's Heris Seranno series. So Far I have enjoyed the first three, books. There is very good character development, but not quite as much over-analysis of the plot situations.

[Vertigo]

I have read all the Serrano books and thoroughly enjoyed them. I think Moon strikes a good balance between characters, plot, action and tecnology. You'll find after the first three books the story arc moves further from Heris Serrano, focusing upon various other characters, but still maintains the same "flavour". I have also read her Vattas's War books which I didn't think were quite as good, though still enjoyable.

[Jade44]

Originally Posted by Vertigo

I enjoyed Mission of Honor and without putting in any spoilers my feelings could be summed up as "Well finally!".

Well, I'm not sure about the "Well finally," aspect, but it does take the series in another direction. I must say though I was not particularly surprised given the amount of foreshadowing there was in the previous two or three novels. Since the next book is already written I guess we will soon be closer to the final outcome. Although I expect if Weber wished he could spin out this series forever.