A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS!

[miss nausicaa]

[QUOTE=Ursa major;1608059]If you look at the bottom right of the post from which you're quoting, you'll see a couple of smileys. When I use the (not to mention finishing a sentence with an ellipsis and a full stop ("....")), it usually means there's a pun, or some word play, in there somewhere.

In this case, I'm playing on the meaning of the word, cell, which can also mean battery (or a part of a battery).




lol alright ! I'm French, so I didn't know this use of the word "cell" ! I felt a bit of humour, but couldn't get it right!
in which thread are Needle's theroy on Jon? ty

[Needle]

[QUOTE=miss nausicaa;1608424]

Originally Posted by Ursa major

If you look at the bottom right of the post from which you're quoting, you'll see a couple of smileys. When I use the (not to mention finishing a sentence with an ellipsis and a full stop ("....")), it usually means there's a pun, or some word play, in there somewhere.

In this case, I'm playing on the meaning of the word, cell, which can also mean battery (or a part of a battery).




lol alright ! I'm French, so I didn't know this use of the word "cell" ! I felt a bit of humour, but couldn't get it right!
in which thread are Needle's theroy on Jon? ty

Welcome miss nausicaa! here is the link, enjoy! Jon Snow -- Beware of Spoilers

[Stribog]

Jeez, you beat me to it by the seconds Needle

[miss nausicaa]

Amazing theory, I really love it !! hope you're right

[firstfist]

OOps. Wrong thread. Moving text to the right one.

[Stribog]

Oops. Replied to it in the right thread

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I was fortunate enough to be able to read all the books at once, without having to wait the six or so years for DwD to come out.

As such, I wasn;t really disappointed with the book at all. Sure there were some slow part, but they gave enough insight into the characters to be interesting. I should also mention that I finnished reading them almost 6 months ago so, one, I might be looking at the books through the rose coloured glasses of time, and 2, all the books kind of mashed together.

I also just read all of this forum, and I wanted to address something that was discussed, at length, about 15 pages before this post. Sorry for dragging up old business

Quentyn Martell was NOT a useless addition to the story.

Through him, we get A) the eventual release of dany's dragons, which I am sure will play a huge part in the battle that is coming to Mereen. B) we learn about a pact in which his sister was supposed to mary a Targ (and guess who else showed up in this book. Why, if it isn't the last male targarian) C) we get introduced to his 2 companions, Drink and Greenguts. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that these 2 will play a big part in the comming books. We know that Barristan asked them to speak with the Windblown and that Barristan promised the Tattered Prince Pentos. And you know who and what, is in pentos.

(the answer is Illyrio and ships)

I think Martell's 2 companions, while note being major carachters, are going to be lynchpins in Dany's eventual return to Westeros. GRRM needed a couple good 'Ol westeros knights in Mereen, and quentyn was the boat that brought them there.

[Tywin]

Arsten, welcome to the forums!

I think you are probably right with the importance of Quentyn's journey because while as a reader I didn't care for him or his companions much (because I hadn't grown to know them over a full 5 books), the author seems to be pushing them as important... which probably foreshadows future events.

A couple things:

B) we learn about a pact in which his sister was supposed to mary a Targ (and guess who else showed up in this book. Why, if it isn't the last male targarian)

I understood this to mean that she was supposed to marry Viserys... which when he got crowned caused the deal to change to be Quentyn marrying Daenerys.

I think Martell's 2 companions, while not being major carachters, are going to be lynchpins in Dany's eventual return to Westeros. GRRM needed a couple good 'Ol westeros knights in Mereen, and quentyn was the boat that brought them there.

I don't see them as necessary for her to have knights since she has Barristan MF Selmy along with her who is churning out a new class of knights singlehandedly in his spare time while running her city, preparing defenses, and killing pit fighters with his bare hands.

You make me wonder though if these two might have a role to play in making a connection between Tyrion and Dorne. I've wondered exactly what Doran Martell is going to aim his vengeance toward since Tywin and his nastiest minions are dead (got it, that's debateable), I figured he would destroy Cersei and then... what? Well, since Tyrion seems to be the only Lannister that Dorne is on friendly terms with (The Red Viper fought and died for him), what if the two Dornish noblemen are the start of a connection between the Imp and Dorne?

[ArstenWhitebeard]

"what if the two Dornish noblemen are the start of a connection between the Imp and Dorne? "

thanks for the welcome. To be honest, that didn't even occur to me, but it seems likely.

As for the whole Pact thing, Yes, Arienne was supposed to Mary Visarys, But if Doran Martell can try to change things to wed Quentyn to Dany, when he finds out Quentyn is dead and Aegon is alive, he might try to change the conditions again and see if he can't wed Arienne to Aegon. Aegon might even accept if it means he gets the immediate support of dorne rather than the prospect of support from Dany. Especially if they consider that he doesn't need to be married to Dany to be her ally. If he wants dragons, there are 3. I picture Dany on Drogon, Aegon on Rheagon and one more, yet to be determined person on Viseron.

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Oh also, I didnt necessarily mean the Dany needed 2 westerosi knights perse, just there there had to be some in the area, for whatever reason.

I think we can all agree that Barriston Selmy is probably the greatest man who ever lived (in this series) and it would be a toss-up as to who is the biggest Bad-a** between him and Tywin.

The story Cersei tells about Tywin staring down the man who cracked a joke about him while he ate is my favourite part of the book so far.

[Sho Pi]

I still believe that Jon is a Targaryen, Rhaegar son, and therefore Aegon's younger half-brother. The irony is that it still means that he's a bastard, just not one Catelyn should have felt threatened by. I also don't believe that his storyline is over, he can't be dead, at least not permanently. More and more, I am beginning to believe that he is Azor Ahai, this would make Melissandre's position in the story make more sense. I reckon that either she or Bran will fix Jon up again somehow. After which he will have to wise up, what a series of rooky mistakes did he make in ADWD.

[Jaqen H'gar]

This is not a particularly revolutionary idea, but I am going to mention it because I think it is cool. Throughout the entire novel, the story seems to revolve around the gathering of Allies, some more unlikely/unexpected than others. When you think about it, just about every POV character gains allies throughout their chapters:

Jon: Stannis (mostly), Melisandre (sort of), Tormund, Mance, The Wildlings, Tycho Nestoris (by contract at least), Alys Karstark (and by association the new House Thenn)

Dany: Quentyn (however briefly), Gerris, The Big Man, The Shavepate, THe Brazen Beasts, The Mothers Men, The Stalwart Shields, The Free Brothers, (and also, It is my belief that GRRM is setting Dany up to finally get that Dothraki army that she always needed, not to mention Tyrion is on his way. The Widow of the Wharf and the slaves of Old Volantis (although only Tyrion and Jorah know this).

Griff: The Golden Company

Tyrion: Aegon and his compatriots (although this is arguable), Jorah Mormont, Penny, and (also arguably) Brown Ben Plumm

Bran:The Children of the Forest, Brynden, Summer's new wolves, The Weirwood trees

Theon: Jeyne Poole, Mance and his spearwives

Asha: Alysane Mormont, some of Stannis's knights, Stannis (at least through his sparing her life)

Arya: Izembaro, her new teacher

Stannis(not a POV I know): The Mountain Clans, House Mormont, House Glover (partially), A bunch of scattered soldiers who used to serve other houses, Jon Snow and the Night's Watch, Mors Umber

Davos: Wyman Manderly, Robett Glover, Wex

Victarion: Moqorro

Cersei: Ser Robert Strong

***I know i didn't mention Jaime and Areo Hotah, but they gathered allies in AFFC***

[ArstenWhitebeard]

That's a good pint, and inarguably true.

I think this is leadiong up to the next two (three?) books to be very fast paced. GRRM has already said that the next book is going to start by finnishing unfinnished business. Particularly the Meereen Knot.

It's going to be a good one.

[Avenger93]

Allright this seems like the perfect place to go all out on my little theory about the AA prophecy.

As it was made abundently clear in the books religion and prophecies are allways debatable and never reliable. This led me to think for quite some time that the AA prophecy was allways misinterpreted by many to mean that we will get one hero that will save the day and his allies. But given GRRM's style I doubt he would do that and I began thinking that the AA and the Targ stuff must be connected (after all the AA prophecy is connected to fighting the eternal winte -Ice- and the Targ stuff is deeply connected to fire). Right now there are many candidates to fullfill the prophecy of AA but none of them are capable of doing so succsesfully.

Everyone's favorites are Dany, Jon and Tyrion. Dany may have the strenght with her dragons but she is too immature, she doesn't know how to leed people and she isn't even aware of the big stakes, nor would she take them seriously util it's too late even if she was (to her they may not even be child storyes and may seem like the ramblings of mad men). Jon has the leadership skills and the understanding of the threat, and he a;so is capable of facing The Others. I think Jon can truly win, but he needs some serious help in order to do so. But after he wins Jon will never want to rule the realm. He laks the ambition or the desire for making the realm a better place, and he lacks the knowleadge to do so. He is a ruller for a time of war, more hero than king. Tyrion ... what can I say ... he has the brains but in every other aspect he falls flat. He doesn't acknoledge the threath of the others, he is an imp (which for a medieval society is a big flaw for a ruller) and would be unable to ride a dragon, and recent events, actions and betrayaks have shaken him deep inside and I think some screws might be a bit loose with him. Plus he has a fetish for killing his relatives ... not a good sign.

The way I view things is that every part of the prophecy needs a different embodiment and ADWD finaly gave me the last piece to complete my theory. AA is the hero of the tale, the warrior that drives back the cold. Well the obvious choice from all the development he got, his location and actions is Jon Snow. I see him as AA revorn, the hero that saves the world from the eternal winter of the others. Next we have TPTWP. Think a bit outside the box: a good warrior does not a good king make (robert anyone?). For me TPTWP part of the prophecy connects to someone whose role is outside the fight, someone who comes after the hero to heal the land and esure peace reigns. Now Targs are obviously a big part of this story and now think about the way not just Varys, but the actions of Aegon himself portray him. His secret history and th way he was raised plus the brief sequences we see of him all make him seem like someone who understands how to rule both in times of war (leading the men himself and staying at their side) but also in time of peace (mostly beeing hinted by Varys). Aegon to me (unless GRRM pulls a bait and switch on us) is the perfect leader for Westeros once the others are defeated by Jon. He will be a pefect king. And at this moment he is a prince returned to his land to save it in it's darkest hour. If this doesn't spell TPTWP, I don't know what does. And the final piece of the prophecy and the targ trinity is of course Lightbringer. Why does it need to be a phisical sword? Lightbringer to me is the means to combat the cold of the others. And gues who fits here? Dany through her children. She and her Dragons have the strenght to win the fight almost singlehandedly. But, and I'm sorry for pissing off Dany fans, she was shown time and time again to be a piss-poor military leader and a crapy monarch with very little ability to understand the needs of the realm and too many idealistic views. Plus she needs someone to guide her power to this conflict much like someone guides a sword to the heart of his enemy. If Dany ever comes to rule Westeros I think people will be wishing Aerys the Mad was back (least he didn't have dragons).

The way I see this play-out is Jon will lead the fight, Dany will provide the key to victory and Aegon will be the binding foce that pulls the realm toghether for this struggle and forges a new Westeros that isn't seven kingdoms, but one. Or GRRM could just make me look like and idiot and nothing like this happens but hey on one hand I feel I understand a bit of how he thinks after reading all his books at least twice (except ADWD though I'm on my halfway through a second time) and one the other this would be one epic way to bring everything toghether, provide an awseome final showdown and set the stage for the bittersweet ending of the book.

PS: I would post the link to my post that explains why I think Jon isn't dead but my post count isn't high enough. Stills it's in Jon's thread page 48 if anyone is interested.

EDIT: Man here I go on a ramble feast again, I need to trim down my posts.

[viZion]

Check out this great review for ADWD. It's pretty funny:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RQMHSVD...cm_cr_rdp_perm